Speaker A
00:00:00 - 00:01:26
Hello, I'm Mike Browning. Welcome to Let God Speak. When God created this world, He spoke with Adam and Eve face to face in plain language. But when sin entered, everything changed. Now God still communicates, but now He does that through His prophets. Well, on our panel today we have Kaysie Vokurka and Alan Fisher. Thank you both for joining with us today and sharing today. We'd like to invite everyone to share with us as we pray together. Father in heaven, we really need you to be here to bless this program today and our discussion on this panel. That we might understand the way You communicated through the prophets to people in this world today. So guide us by Your Spirit, please, we pray in Jesus' name. Amen. Well, folks, we need to address a question here. And Kaysie, can you do this for us? Why is God so interested in communicating with human beings?
Speaker B
00:01:28 - 00:01:40
Yeah, well, you know, I think we can learn a couple of key points to answer that question from going back to when God first communicated to man after they sinned. So if we have a look at Genesis 3:8-11.
Speaker A
00:01:40 - 00:01:41
Yes.
Speaker B
00:01:41 - 00:02:29
And we'll read there, and it says, and they heard the sound of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day. And Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God among the trees of the garden. Then the Lord God called to Adam and said to him, "Where are you?" So he said, "I heard your voice in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked, and I hid myself." And he said, "Who told you you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you that you should not eat?" And so basically what we see here is Adam and Eve. You know, they didn't want to encounter God after they had sinned. They wanted to. Go away from him. But God is saying, you know, where are you? It's like if you try to find a friend or something, you're like, oh, I wanna talk to you, I wanna connect with you. That's kind of the idea coming across.
Speaker A
00:02:29 - 00:02:32
So God is taking the initiative here to connect with
Speaker B
00:02:32 - 00:02:33
us. Absolutely, yeah.
Speaker A
00:02:33 - 00:02:34
That's so encouraging, isn't it?
Speaker B
00:02:34 - 00:03:28
It is. He wants to connect with humanity. That's the key point. He wants to connect with everyone in this world because he intends to have a relationship with us. But then the second point, we kind of get a clue from verse 11. God is saying, you know, I can see your situation. I can see the the what's going on here with you, why you're having this trouble with connecting with me, and I can tell you what the problem is. You know, you've you've disobeyed me. Basically, he's alluding to that, and then the rest of you know this chapter basically God is explaining. You know, this is the situation you're in now. These are the consequences, and also here's a solution. And so, you know, we we think about our world today. Often people have questions, you know, why is this world in such a mess? Why is there inhumanities? Why do bad things happen? Will there be justice? You know, all of these questions.
Speaker A
00:03:28 - 00:03:29
Yes.
Speaker B
00:03:29 - 00:03:35
And God is saying, I have answers. I can explain what's going on. I can give you hope as well.
Speaker A
00:03:35 - 00:03:36
We have to know this.
Speaker B
00:03:36 - 00:03:39
Yeah. And so he wants to give that to us.
Speaker A
00:03:39 - 00:04:01
No, we do. We really do. Thank you for that. Appreciate it. In what practical ways Can we talk about why God really cares about us? How does he care about us? 'Cause the fact is, does he? And are we doomed otherwise to self-destruction, Alan? Does he really care? That's the question.
Speaker C
00:04:01 - 00:04:24
Yeah, well, the answer to that is John 3:16, that well-known text. It says, for God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. So that's the answer. God's love for us, His immense love. He gave His nearest and dearest, His Son, for us.
Speaker A
00:04:24 - 00:04:33
He did. That's the amazing thing about it, isn't it? So what practical ways does God use to communicate to us? Kaysie?
Speaker B
00:04:33 - 00:05:49
Yeah, well, you know, the Bible teaches us that God is the Creator. And so one way we can learn about God and sense of communication with him is actually through nature. And we, we see this because it talks about it in Romans. In Romans 1:20, it says, for since the creation of the world, his invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse. And so basically, you know, When we look at God's creation, we can get insight into what he is like and who he is. We see his power, we see his creativity. We look at the flowers, for instance. He didn't make them all of one color. He's put a lot of variety in there, a lot of design. The birds, their elegant ability to fly and all of this kind of thing. The intelligence in there, the mathematics, the ingenuity, all of that. We just are awed by his power, but we can also be awed by his provision. Mm-hmm. We find things in nature with redundancy, with adaptability. And we just, yeah, we get a sense of his incredible power, but at the same time, his incredible care.
Speaker A
00:05:49 - 00:06:00
Yeah. And his love of beauty. I think that's a fantastic thing you pointed out about the flowers. Alan, give us a practical example in nature, if you could, of the power of God. Can you do that?
Speaker C
00:06:00 - 00:06:31
Well, one thing is the healing ability that seems to be inherent in every living thing. Like if you damage a tree and break its bark and so forth, it will callus over and heal itself. And same with the human body. If you cut yourself, it doesn't bleed forever. It starts to heal up. And yeah, so this is a thing that's in nature that we now understand, but it's a miraculous thing.
Speaker A
00:06:31 - 00:06:39
It's an amazing miracle, isn't it? It really is. What else do we see in nature On another side to it. Kaysie?
Speaker B
00:06:39 - 00:08:01
Well, you know, it is interesting because some people look at nature and it's, hey, you can get confusing messages because it's not all perfect, right? We've explained some of the things that are just incredible, but there's also things that, yeah, they're not perfect. And so for instance, roses have thorns, you know, and we have weeds and things to deal with. And the Bible actually uses nature with the, these problems that it can have, as an example, an illustration for us to learn a lesson from about our world at large. And we can look at that in Matthew 13, verse 24 to 28. And it says this, it says, Another parable he put forth to them, saying, the kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. So the servants of the owner came and said to him, sir, did you not sow good seeds in your field? How then does it have tares? He said to them, an enemy has done this. And so you can see here, like, this is obviously a metaphor, and Jesus can explain it, but basically in the world that we live in, there is an enemy.
Speaker A
00:08:01 - 00:08:01
Yeah.
Speaker B
00:08:01 - 00:08:12
And that explains why we experience both good and evil altogether. And yeah, the things we see in nature remind us of that reality.
Speaker A
00:08:12 - 00:08:22
Yes. And without this statement here, this parable particularly, it's a little difficult for some people to understand the existence of things that are bad.
Speaker B
00:08:22 - 00:08:22
Yes.
Speaker A
00:08:22 - 00:08:54
If you're a kindergartner, weeds, how did you say, the thorns on the rose? Yeah. But Jesus' point at the end of the last thing you read was, An enemy has done. God did not make it like that. It has been spoiled. And that's important to get that point. So thank you for that. Okay, so God has communicated through nature, but He's also communicated through prophets to give messages to His people, Alan. And I think we need to talk about how God actually communicated His message to the prophets.
Speaker C
00:08:54 - 00:09:34
Well, we looked at Revelation 1:1-3, and it begins by saying, the revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants things which must shortly take place. And he sent and signified it by his angel to his servant John, who bore witness to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things that he saw. And then it goes on to say, blessed is he who reads and those who keep it. Yeah. And so, yeah, God himself initiated the message. It says here, the revelation that God gave him.
Speaker A
00:09:34 - 00:10:23
Yes. And there was quite a process beyond that, wasn't there? God gives it to Jesus, who gives it to the angel, who takes it to his servant John. It's really interesting. There's quite a process involved here. So let's talk about that process. I'm going to turn to 2 Peter chapter 1. And verse 21, 2 Peter 1:21. And this is what it says. And I'm going to read it out. It says this, for prophecy never came by the will of man. In other words, it wasn't man's idea. But holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. So how does this actually work in practice? How does God communicate to the prophets exactly?
Speaker B
00:10:25 - 00:10:54
Yeah, so obviously they've come under the influence of the Holy Spirit, and so then what they are saying is, as you mentioned, not their own idea. It's not something that they're trying to generate out of their own thoughts. So they have a connection with God that enables them to speak and share something that is really God's message through them. Right. So yeah, The Holy Spirit is the one responsible for the key point of the message.
Speaker A
00:10:54 - 00:11:00
Okay, okay. And of course, the Holy Spirit uses visions and dreams sometimes as well.
Speaker B
00:11:00 - 00:11:02
Yes, that is very true.
Speaker A
00:11:02 - 00:11:20
So it's quite amazing. Look, Alan, when the Holy Spirit did bring the message to these people in all kinds of ways, as we just mentioned, was it, did He dictate the message? You know, was it word for word, a word for word message that was given to the prophet?
Speaker C
00:11:20 - 00:11:52
No, it wasn't word for word, but the Lord gave them the message and then the prophet put it into his own words. We see this in the Bible. There was a range of different prophets who were recorded in the Bible. Everybody from Amos the shepherd, sheepherder and gatherer of sycamore fruit through to Daniel, the statesman, in the New Testament, Paul, who was highly educated. So each one has his own style of writing. That's right.
Speaker A
00:11:52 - 00:12:25
You can pick up a style, can't you, if you come get used to it? Now that's so true. Thank you for that. So I'm going to read another scripture here, writing from Paul this time. And it's 2 Timothy chapter 3, And verse 16. And he says this, all scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, teaching, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. So what is that? What is Paul saying to us here, Kaysie?
Speaker B
00:12:25 - 00:12:41
Yeah, well, the key part of that text, all scripture is given by inspiration of God. So the whole of the Bible we can take as something that Like we can take it as if God has given it straight to us, even though human— there's been human involvement in getting it here.
Speaker A
00:12:41 - 00:12:42
Yeah.
Speaker B
00:12:42 - 00:13:25
Like we can take it as coming purely, entirely inspired by God. And the result is that it's an unerring message. It's something that we can put our confidence in, even though it's in human language, because of the inspiration that God puts in it. Now we don't— God's ways are higher than ours. We don't understand how he can achieve that, really. You know, how can God get his message through fallen human beings in a way that it comes out pure? But he does. And so the rest of the text is just basically saying that the scriptures teach truth and they give us power and instruction on how to live our lives to please God.
Speaker A
00:13:25 - 00:13:37
Okay, that's really interesting. Thank you for that. I really appreciate it. You know, it's interesting. There's always been the combination of the divine and the human right through to the incarnation of the Son of God.
Speaker B
00:13:37 - 00:13:37
Yeah.
Speaker A
00:13:37 - 00:13:45
Combination again of the divine and the human. So interesting, isn't it? Okay, what other methods did he use, Alan, to communicate with the prophets?
Speaker C
00:13:45 - 00:15:10
Yeah, well, this gets interesting. Like if we look at Luke in chapter 1, the first 3 verses, he says, inasmuch As many have taken in hand to set in order a narrative of those things which have been fulfilled among us, just as those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and ministers of the word delivered them to us, it seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write you an orderly account. So he's saying here that he drew on the the work of others, eyewitness accounts, those who are eyewitnesses from the beginning, how they delivered it to us. So Luke didn't claim to have any vision or anything of his own, but he gathered what others had told him. And we look over in 1 John for another method. John says, that which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, And our hands have handled concerning the word of life. So John is here saying that he's telling what he actually personally saw. So it's 2 different methods that are mentioned there. One we could say is the research method and the other is firsthand experience.
Speaker A
00:15:10 - 00:15:27
Yeah, that's good. Thank you for that. I appreciate that. Look, Alan, while we're talking to you, when God communicated with the prophets, was his voice clear and distinct? Did they hear a clear, distinct voice when God spoke?
Speaker C
00:15:27 - 00:15:50
Ah, yes, yes. We go over to Isaiah, Isaiah 8:11. He says, for the Lord spoke thus to me with a strong hand and instructed me that I should not walk in the way of this people, So he's there definitely saying that the Lord spoke clearly to him, spoke to him with a strong hand, as he puts it.
Speaker A
00:15:50 - 00:15:51
Hmm.
Speaker C
00:15:51 - 00:16:22
And in Ezekiel, we read more about God's direct communication. Ezekiel 3:16-17 says, now it came to pass at the end of 7 days that the word of the Lord came to me, Saying, Son of man, I have made you a watchman for the house of Israel. Therefore, hear a word from my mouth and give them warning from me. So he's saying that God spoke directly to him.
Speaker A
00:16:22 - 00:16:40
Okay, thank you, Alan, for that. That's very clear. Now, when we read, for example, well, once the prophets receive the message, So then how did they go about communicating it? This is another interesting side of it, isn't
Speaker B
00:16:40 - 00:17:26
it? Yeah, well, we've seen how it's kind of like a step-by-step process God gives to the messenger and then the messenger communicates it. And so they used different methods. So some of them preached, some of them, you know, had a more teaching approach in their way. Other people wrote it down. And then shared it amongst the people, and there were copiers involved in various things. And other ways actually involve drama. So they would have a message, but they had to act it out in their own life or give it as an object lesson to people to help really bring more impact for that message home to the people's hearts.
Speaker A
00:17:26 - 00:17:59
All right, thank you for that, Kaysie. We read 2 Peter 1:19 a bit earlier, and this is what, just to remind you what it said, verse 21 in particular, holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. Hmm. Now, what is this telling about, telling us about one method that the prophets used In communicating with the people, Alan? The obvious one here, if you like.
Speaker C
00:17:59 - 00:18:16
Well, he's saying that he's communicating what God had shown him. It says that holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. So the Holy Ghost moved on the prophet and then he gave the message in the language of the people.
Speaker A
00:18:16 - 00:18:34
Okay, so he communicated it. Personally to the people. Okay, thank you for that. That's very clear there. Kaysie, were there prophets, we've been talking about how they communicated and some of them wrote things down. Did they all write things down?
Speaker B
00:18:34 - 00:19:15
No, not all of them. Like there was, for instance, Elijah and Elisha. They didn't write their messages down. They gave it to the people in the context at their time. There was John the Baptist, he was like that. And even Jesus, you know, he didn't, write anything down of himself. But what happened is other people heard the messages, heard what they had to say, recognized their prophetic calling and their gift, and felt called themselves to write down what these people had shared. And therefore their messages were then preserved, whether it's for people at that time or for successive generations.
Speaker A
00:19:15 - 00:19:21
Okay, thank you, Kaysie. Look, while we're still talking to you, many of the prophets did write their messages down.
Speaker B
00:19:21 - 00:19:22
Yes.
Speaker A
00:19:22 - 00:19:27
Why in particular did some of them record it and obviously others didn't?
Speaker B
00:19:27 - 00:20:07
Yeah, yeah. So obviously all of these things are driven by the conviction of the Holy Spirit as to what God wants us to do with our abilities and talents. But we can read something very interesting in John chapter 20. John, the author of this book, is sharing a little bit about why he's written stuff down. And in John 20:30-31, it says, and truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of his disciples which are not written in this book. But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in his name.
Speaker A
00:20:07 - 00:20:07
Amen.
Speaker B
00:20:07 - 00:20:24
And so There's a couple of things we can draw from this. One is that, you know, what is recorded is intended to be sufficient for us to base our faith upon, because he's saying, I've written these things down so that you can believe, right?
Speaker A
00:20:24 - 00:20:24
Okay.
Speaker B
00:20:24 - 00:21:07
So that's one point. The other thing is so that people who were not eyewitnesses of these events, they would have access to the stories and the information, what actually happened, in a form that would enable them also to believe and base their faith upon. Now, this could be people who were not eyewitnesses at the time, but also successive generations as well. So coming down to our day, we can still take these stories, and there's enough here upon which we can base our faith. And it's fascinating, the very last verse in the Book of John says, if everything was recorded about Jesus' life, there would be— he thought the whole world wouldn't even be able to hold the books. Wouldn't hold them.
Speaker A
00:21:07 - 00:21:08
Amazing.
Speaker B
00:21:08 - 00:21:19
So what has been picked and recorded here have really been inspired, handpicked things that enable us to have a solid foundation for our faith.
Speaker A
00:21:19 - 00:21:48
Thank you very much. Appreciate that. I'm going to read from 1 Corinthians 10 now in verse 11. And this is what it says. Now all these things happened to them, that's past generations, particularly Israel, Happened to them as examples. And they were written for our admonition upon whom the ends of the age have come. So he's giving us another reason here, Alan, as to why they wrote their messages down.
Speaker C
00:21:48 - 00:22:12
Yeah, it was written for our, as it says, admonition. It's not a common word these days, but it means our instruction, our guidance. So throughout the history of the world, things are basically the same. People face the same problems, the same challenges, the same situations, and the scripture's given for our instruction.
Speaker A
00:22:12 - 00:22:22
Good. Okay, thank you for that. Kaysie, each prophet does have a unique style, doesn't he? So are some more inspired than others as a result of that?
Speaker B
00:22:22 - 00:22:37
No, there's no degrees of inspiration. And we read a text earlier that All scripture is given by inspiration of God. And so even though the language is human and there's unique style, the message itself, inspired and infallible.
Speaker A
00:22:37 - 00:22:44
Okay, thank you for that. And Alan, the prophets haven't always used just language, right, have they?
Speaker C
00:22:44 - 00:22:55
No, God's used many messages, many methods to get the message across. Like we think of the sacrificial system in the Old Testament, it was all for instruction.
Speaker A
00:22:56 - 00:22:56
Right.
Speaker C
00:22:56 - 00:23:13
For them. And then John the Baptist referred to this, John 1:29, when he said, Behold the Lamb of God that taketh away the sin of the world. So it was using another symbol, Jesus as the Lamb, as in the sacrificial system.
Speaker A
00:23:13 - 00:24:18
Okay, and that was very powerful, wasn't it? Very powerful indeed. What do you think of Ezekiel chapter 4? And I'm gonna read verses 1 to 3 there. Hmm. Kaysie, Ezekiel chapter 4 and verses 1 to 3. This is very interesting. Here's what it says. You also, son of man, take a clay tablet. Now, this is a message from God to the prophet Ezekiel. Lay it before you and portray on it a city, Jerusalem. Lay siege against it, build a siege wall against it, Heap up a mound against it, set camps against it also, place battering rams against it. This is a model he was to make. Verse 3, moreover, take for yourself an iron plate and set it as an iron wall between you and the city. Set your face against it, it shall be besieged, and you shall lay siege against it. This will be a sign to the house of Israel. Interesting. Kaysie, what do you think of that?
Speaker B
00:24:18 - 00:24:54
I think it's really fascinating. And, you know, it really highlights how God has an excellent way of teaching people because he realizes that many of us learn better if we can see something tangible, you know, a model, something, you know, visual kind of things. have a deeper impression in our mind. And so the point that was being made here was something that was emphasized and enhanced because of the way that Ezekiel was told to communicate it.
Speaker A
00:24:54 - 00:24:55
Okay, thank
Speaker B
00:24:55 - 00:24:56
you. Yeah, so.
Speaker A
00:24:56 - 00:25:36
Well, that's so true. And Alan, just very quickly now, I'm going to read to you from Hosea chapter 1 and verse 27. And sorry, verse 2, not 27. Chapter 1, verse 2. Then the Lord, when the Lord began to speak by Hosea, the Lord said to Hosea, 1:2, just to reiterate, go, take yourself a wife of harlotry and children of harlotry, for the land has committed great harlotry by departing from the Lord. What's he saying to us here? Just in a few moments that we've got left.
Speaker C
00:25:36 - 00:25:49
Yeah, well, this was a symbol of the nation of Israel's unfaithfulness to God, like this unfaithful wife. And it got the message across to them in a way that nothing else could have.
Speaker A
00:25:49 - 00:26:00
He paid a big price, didn't he? He made a demonstration. But it must have made a huge impact. Okay, well, finally, what was God's ultimate attempt to communicate with this lost planet? Kaysie?
Speaker B
00:26:00 - 00:26:45
Yeah, so it says in Hebrews, Hebrews 1, verses 1 and 2, it says, God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by his Son, whom he has appointed heir of all things, through whom also he made the world. And so this is really saying to us that God ultimately communicated with us through giving Jesus, you know, part of himself, one of his own, to come face-to-face with us and speak to us. And this is something which is mind-blowing because this is the Creator. And yet he's coming to be with us, to connect with us.
Speaker A
00:26:45 - 00:27:00
So there was to be no confusion. There was no mediator. There was no hand-me-down effect. God spoke personally through himself, through his Son. And spoke to us the words of life. And what a powerful thing it is.
Speaker B
00:27:00 - 00:27:01
Yes, absolutely.
Speaker A
00:27:01 - 00:28:00
And how blessed we are to know about that and to have his own words written in this incredible book. And we can read it every day, folks. Don't mislead yourself into thinking we don't need to do that regularly and remind ourselves of the amazing things that God has written For us and how He's revealed His Son Jesus. Well, we're going to have to stop there, folks. We are blessed to have God's messages written down in our own language, aren't we? We can read the prophets' words. We can read the teachings of the Son of God. We can read the story of His death and resurrection for our sins. We can remind ourselves daily of this great gift of God's love. So it's wonderful. Amen. Well, thank you for joining us on Let God Speak today. Past programs and teachers' notes are available at 3abnaustralia.org.au. You can email us if you would like. Do join us again next time. God bless.
Speaker D
00:28:07 - 00:28:31
You have been listening to Let God Speak, a production of 3ABN Australia Television. To catch up on past programs, please visit 3abnaustralia.org.au. Call us in Australia on 02 4973 3456 or email
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