Speaker A
00:00:01 - 00:01:02
Hello, I'm Rod Butler. Welcome to Let God Speak. The Bible is far more than a collection of ancient stories. It's the carefully preserved Word of God written by His messengers under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. From Moses in the desert to John on Patmos, God directed His prophets to write so that His people might learn, endure, and find hope. Stay with us as we explore the Sabbath School topic, the prophetic writings and discover why these inspired words speak with power today. Yeah. On our panel today we have Corinne Knopper and Harold Harker. Welcome.
Speaker B
00:01:02 - 00:01:03
Hello.
Speaker A
00:01:03 - 00:02:11
Well, before we commence our discussion, I ask we bow for prayer. Gracious Father, we thank you for the Word, the Holy Scriptures. They are a light unto our feet. And as we have this discussion, we ask for the Holy Spirit to lead and guide us on this important topic of the prophetic writings. And may you bless our viewers, we pray in Jesus' name. Amen. Amen. Well, God first spoke directly through voices, dreams, and angels, yet he also commanded his messengers to write so that future generations could learn and find hope. The prophetic writings contain history, poetry, letters, visions, and more, each style chosen under the Spirit's direction. Today we'll look at why God called his servants to write, how they used literary helpers and sources, and how the treasures of truth still shine through us human vessels. Now, Corinne, our first, our first question on this important topic: What was the first clear instruction in Scripture that God gave to a prophet to write down His messages?
Speaker C
00:02:11 - 00:03:13
Well, the first one we can find is in the 2nd book in the Bible, which is Exodus. And if we go there and look at chapter 17 and verse 14, it tells us: Then the Lord said to Moses, write this for a memorial in the book and recount it in the hearing of Joshua, and I will utterly blot out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven. So when you see that God has acted here and it's His words that are preserved for us in this book, and this was at the time of the birth of the nation of Israel, and God was their director. He was their leader. at that time. God wanted to have written records, not just for our curiosity or for the people's curiosity, but so that all the future generations could remember all the details of God and His power and His faithfulness to us all.
Speaker A
00:03:13 - 00:03:20
And at that time there was a lot of miracles. God was working with the children coming out of Egypt and so forth.
Speaker C
00:03:20 - 00:03:20
Oh yes.
Speaker A
00:03:20 - 00:03:23
So we're talking, what, 1,400 years before
Speaker D
00:03:23 - 00:03:23
That's
Speaker A
00:03:23 - 00:03:24
right. Before Christ.
Speaker C
00:03:24 - 00:03:24
Yes.
Speaker A
00:03:24 - 00:03:29
So, Harold, why does it matter to have everything written as a memorial?
Speaker D
00:03:29 - 00:04:15
Well, let me read you what the great Apostle Paul wrote in Romans chapter 15 and verse 4. He said, for whatever things were written, that's talking about these writings, whatever things were written before were written for our learning that we Through the patience and comfort of the Scriptures might find hope. So this is for us. This is for everyone who reads the Bible, everyone who follows Jesus. We've got the writings of what God has done before, and it's to give us a great future and a hope for what's coming. Hmm. So we know God has led in the past. He's going to lead in the future, too.
Speaker A
00:04:16 - 00:04:33
And it's up to us to believe that He did and, and then we have that hope. Sure. Well, look, let's come forward now about 800 years from Moses to Jeremiah, and we're going to look at why did God tell Jeremiah to write down the things He did against Israel and Judah and the nations around him?
Speaker C
00:04:33 - 00:06:03
Well, sadly, at that time there was such a terrible national apostasy against God that was really so sad. So God told Jeremiah to go and write this down so that the people could hear right then there would be a coming judgment. And that was a possibility. And He wanted them so much to turn from their evil ways and then they could receive forgiveness. Sure. And this is what Jeremiah did write in chapter 36 there and verses 2 and 3. Take a scroll of a book and write on it all the words that I have spoken to you against Israel, against Judah, and against all the nations from the day I spoke to you, from the day— days of Josiah, even to this day. It may be that the House of Judah will hear all the adversities which I purpose to bring upon them. that everyone may turn from his evil way, that I may forgive their iniquity and their sin. And so that same motive runs through all the prophetic writings that we find. God really does desire salvation for us more than judgment.
Speaker A
00:06:03 - 00:06:13
That's the important point, isn't it? God's not looking to punish people. He's looking to save them. And sometimes, and sometimes it's save them, you've got to let bad things happen so they wake up to themselves.
Speaker C
00:06:13 - 00:06:14
Yes.
Speaker A
00:06:14 - 00:06:22
So look, Harold, under what kind of circumstances did the messengers write? They wrote under varied circumstances.
Speaker D
00:06:22 - 00:07:23
Well, they've lived through thousands of years of time, but they wrote in all sorts of circumstances. Let me talk about Moses. He was leading the children of Israel through the desert from Egypt. So he wrote in the desert. And then David, he wrote all those Psalms, or most of them, and collected them. But he was running away. So he was fleeing for his life. And he's writing, God's leading here. Hmm. And then Daniel, he was a prisoner. Well, he was taken as a prisoner over to Babylon. And he was a prisoner there. And God used him in a foreign place. The Holy Spirit empowers people. It doesn't matter where they are or what location, what situation. God uses people and He empowers them. Even if it's a difficult situation, God says, I use people wherever they are to show My leading there.
Speaker A
00:07:23 - 00:07:27
And that's the key point, isn't it? It's demonstrating the power of the Holy Spirit.
Speaker D
00:07:27 - 00:07:27
Sure.
Speaker A
00:07:28 - 00:07:38
Interesting. Corinne, some people sort of say we can't trust the Bible because we don't have the original manuscripts. What would you say to that sort of argument?
Speaker C
00:07:38 - 00:08:25
Oh, I find that the reliability of all the Scriptures doesn't rest on possession of these things, not at all. For the physical copies, there are thousands of these beautifully preserved beautiful old manuscripts, early translations, and they're so consistent with the testimony that comes down across all the centuries. And they demonstrate faithfully the transmission of the text that God has given and inspired with the writings that He's given to be watched over, a real preservation. so that the people today, we, we can hear that today.
Speaker D
00:08:25 - 00:08:25
Sure.
Speaker C
00:08:25 - 00:08:27
Otherwise we would've missed out.
Speaker A
00:08:27 - 00:08:32
Yeah, and look, oldest doesn't necessarily mean most accurate, does it?
Speaker C
00:08:32 - 00:08:32
No.
Speaker A
00:08:32 - 00:08:39
When you've got a huge body of manuscripts which all say the same thing but are a bit younger, doesn't mean they're wrong.
Speaker C
00:08:39 - 00:08:40
No.
Speaker A
00:08:40 - 00:08:51
Now, Harold, you mentioned about under the circumstances they wrote, which was varied. They also wrote with different styles and different genres. because they had different backgrounds.
Speaker D
00:08:51 - 00:08:51
Sure.
Speaker A
00:08:51 - 00:08:55
Talk to us about some of the different styles in the prophetic writings.
Speaker D
00:08:55 - 00:10:22
Well, Scripture, all these writings contain different areas. One is stories. We call that narrative. So the stories of how God has led all through the past. And then there's history. And history, I call it His story, is how God has led. So there are parts of the Scripture which are history. And then there's the arts, there's poetry. And in the poetry, they're glorifying God and love at the same time. And then as well as that, there's lament. Jeremiah, he was so sorry and he wrote Lamentations. Oh, yes. So it contained that. And then there's even apocalyptic visions. John is looking to the future and sees how God is going to lead in the future. And there's songs, parables. Jesus spoke everything by parable. Yeah. So He— that's another special kind of story. And there's personal letters. And Paul wrote to different people, but God used him in that way. It shows that God speaks to us. Through the full range of human language, whether it's story or song or poetry or whatever, God is there. And the whole Bible tells me about Jesus and how God looks after us.
Speaker A
00:10:22 - 00:10:27
That's marvelous, isn't it? And the other thing is, too, we're all different. Not all of us sort of relate to the same genres.
Speaker D
00:10:27 - 00:10:28
Correct.
Speaker A
00:10:28 - 00:10:34
For example, some of us might be like just narrative. But even the person who likes narrative will be challenged by the poetry.
Speaker D
00:10:34 - 00:10:35
Correct.
Speaker A
00:10:35 - 00:10:38
So, you never get bored with the different genres in the scriptures.
Speaker D
00:10:38 - 00:10:39
Correct. You're right.
Speaker A
00:10:39 - 00:10:47
Well, does any style of literary genre in the prophetic writings, Corinne, have any greater value than, say, other parts?
Speaker C
00:10:47 - 00:12:20
I don't see any distinction between them all and their authority, one style of communication compared to another one. And I think we find a little bit more of this in the Bible. And if you look over there in 2 Timothy, we can find just a little bit here about Scripture. 2 Timothy, chapter 3, verse 16. All Scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. The main word there is the very first word, all. All Scripture. And When you look at Paul's letters, for example, they were regarded as carrying the same weight as the prophets from way back in the beginning of the Bible because Paul claimed that he was inspired by the Holy Spirit. And he did write about this. And if I go back a few pages into 1 Corinthians, let's have a look in 1 Corinthians. Chapter 7 and verse 40. But she is happier if she remains as she is according to my judgment. And I think I also have the Spirit of God. He is saying that I have the Spirit of God there.
Speaker A
00:12:20 - 00:12:22
Yeah, amazing.
Speaker C
00:12:22 - 00:12:23
Yes.
Speaker A
00:12:23 - 00:12:36
Now, Harold, with respect to the prophets being inspired under different circumstances, different genres, Are there examples in Scripture where someone else did the writing for them? Did they have literary assistants?
Speaker D
00:12:36 - 00:14:06
Yes, and the Bible tells us that. Let me tell you one example. Here is Jeremiah. We mentioned Jeremiah the prophet just before, and in chapter 36 and verse 17 and 18, it tells us even the name of the person who did the writing for him. And it says, and they asked saying, tell us now, how did you write all these words at his instruction? So Baruch answered them, he proclaimed with his mouth all these words to me, and I wrote them with ink in the book. So Jeremiah spoke and Baruch writes down the thoughts as he heard the message and he writes them in his book. Let me give you one from the New Testament, and I'm going over to Romans chapter 16. This is the book from Paul who wrote to the Romans, and it says, I, Tertius, who wrote this epistle, greet you in the Lord. So Paul, who was traveling a lot, used at this time Tertius to be the the scribe and to write down the message, but the message was from Paul who got it from heaven, and Tertius writes it that way. And so these faithful scribes would record the message that God gave to these prophets and these people of old.
Speaker A
00:14:06 - 00:14:23
Hmm, that's really interesting. Now, Corinne, just picking up what Harold has said, there's been controversy over the literary assistance. You know, people sort of think, oh, it's not as inspired. Is the message less controversial because another human wrote the physical message down?
Speaker C
00:14:23 - 00:16:02
No, there doesn't seem to be at all because the authority rests on that divine origin. Where did this come from? Where did that message come from? Not the person who's holding the pen. And Paul's letters, they carried the same weight as the Old Testament people did. And the prophets there, because the Holy Spirit had inspired and guided the full content of everything there, whether it was written by the prophet himself or herself or their faithful servant and assistant. The words still remain. They are God's words, the Word of God for the church. That's right. And we can look at some of the texts that will help us understand it a little bit more. And I've turned over to Colossians chapter 4, and verse 18. This salutation by my own hand, Paul. Remember my chains. Grace be with you. Amen. So Paul is saying it here. Hmm. I'm validating my letter. This is me signing that particular one. And then we go over another few pages to 2 Thessalonians, chapter 3. And he does the same at the end of that letter. In chapter 3, verse 17, the salutation of Paul with my own hand, which is a sign in every epistle. So I write this. He is writing and each person will do it just that little bit different. Correct.
Speaker A
00:16:02 - 00:16:08
And just on that point, how does the use of literary assistance Harold, account for some differences in style?
Speaker D
00:16:08 - 00:17:18
Well, let me tell you, if you had a dozen people here and showed them something and asked them to write it down, they could tell you exactly what it was, but they would use different words. And variations in their vocabulary and how they even constructed the sentences, it reflects the abilities of each person. Now, let me take an example. Peter, he was a fisherman. He wasn't a great scholar. He would have spoken Aramaic, but he's written the letter and it's in Greek. He probably used a scribe as well. Yes. And the thought that comes from God is expressed in the thoughts that that person would write. It's the individual word. It's the grammatical style. chosen by the person who writes. It's not God just saying, hey, dictate these words. Write it down as you've heard it and as it comes to you. Now that tells us it can be different. The message is the same, but the words may be a little different. And you see Peter's words are different to those of Paul.
Speaker C
00:17:18 - 00:17:18
Yes.
Speaker A
00:17:18 - 00:17:57
Well, I want to move on to sources now. Corinne, just I'm going to read Ecclesiastes 12:9-10. And the question I've got is, you know, what does this say about the use of sources? And this is the author of Ecclesiastes, some say Solomon. And moreover, because the Preacher was wise, he still taught the people knowledge; yea, he gave good heed, and sought out, and set in order many proverbs. The Preacher sought to find out acceptable and that which was written was upright, even words of truth. What does that say about the use of sources?
Speaker C
00:17:57 - 00:18:54
It tells me that there are a lot of different ways that we can source the different things. Solomon here was under inspiration and he gathered so many things and he, all these wonderful wise sayings, some came from other sources. And we know that because one of them included the mother of King Lemuel. Right. Where she said something and he took it. And the Holy Spirit guided this selection for every one of his writers here so that only what was upright and true was preserved. And then there was inspiration that does not require every word to originate from the vision that may have been given to them. And it operates very carefully, the Spirit-led research and compilation that has been given to us.
Speaker A
00:18:54 - 00:19:35
Well, I'm gonna read another extract now. And question for you, Harold, is again, the use of non-biblical sources. I want your comment on this. This is Luke reading chapter 1 and verses 1 to 4. Forasmuch as many have taken in hand a set frame forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us, even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses and ministers of the word. It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus. So what does that show about inspired writers, writers using non-biblical sources?
Speaker D
00:19:36 - 00:20:43
Well, he used all, he collected everything that was said about it and put it all together. It was still a true story, but he's used different sources to do that. If you look at the Bible, the Gospels, Mark wrote his first. And about 90% of what Mark wrote is in Matthew. Hmm. And about half of it is in Luke. And so, they've used what Mark wrote to put into theirs. But it's all part of the inspired story. Luke carefully investigated all these accounts that were circulating about Jesus and arranged them in an author, in an order that says, this was how He did it. Hmm. And Luke's story highlights a few things that Matthew doesn't. And likewise Mark and John. So use of sources is not, doesn't decry inspiration. It's the message is still there through all those sources.
Speaker A
00:20:43 - 00:20:48
Yeah, very good. So Corinne, just quickly, do you have another example you can draw upon?
Speaker C
00:20:48 - 00:21:44
Yes, Jude, and the last book, second to last book in our Bible. And Jude's only a very tiny book, one chapter. And if we go and look there in verses 14 and 15, it says, now Enoch, the 7th from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, behold, the Lord comes with 10,000s of His saints to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed. in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. And we find from this that Jude has quoted from an intertestamental book, 1 Enoch 1:9. And from this we can see that inspiration includes both direct revelation and also guided research.
Speaker D
00:21:44 - 00:21:45
Correct.
Speaker C
00:21:45 - 00:21:45
Yes.
Speaker A
00:21:47 - 00:21:52
Now, we also have example, Harold, excuse me, from the book of Titus.
Speaker D
00:21:52 - 00:22:36
Yes, here's one. Titus says, in hope of eternal life, which God— sorry, verse 12. One of them, a prophet of their own, said, Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, and lazy gluttons. So he's quoting another prophet. So the New Testament writers would have done that. I can give you another one too. Here's one. Paul, when he was in Athens, he said, in Him we live, in God we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said. So Paul's quoting them. Titus gives the example there. So these Testament, New Testament writers certainly quoted other sources.
Speaker C
00:22:36 - 00:22:37
Yes.
Speaker A
00:22:37 - 00:22:56
They did. They did. That one was Titus with Epimenides, the 6th century part's quite interesting. I'm going to read now 2 Corinthians chapter 4, verses 6 and 7, because again we need to know the relationship between divine truth and the messenger.
Speaker C
00:22:56 - 00:22:56
Yes.
Speaker A
00:22:56 - 00:23:20
2 Corinthians chapter 4 and verse 6-7: For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, To give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God and not of us. So what does this teach, Corinne, about the relationship between us and the message?
Speaker C
00:23:20 - 00:23:53
Oh, it's telling us about the priceless truth of the gospel, and that's carried in such fragile human earthen vessels, as it said there in verse 7. And that contrast magnifies the wonderful powers that God has and the weaknesses of the humans that we have as messengers for God. And we are not to destroy that treasure. And they highlight that there's such a greatness that belongs to God alone. God and God alone.
Speaker A
00:23:53 - 00:23:58
Yes. That's pretty powerful that he would trust us with such important messages.
Speaker C
00:23:58 - 00:23:59
Yes.
Speaker A
00:23:59 - 00:24:18
Let's move to the 19th century now. And from what we've just sort of gone through— literary assistance and non-biblical sources, different situations— in what ways did Ellen White's writings parallel the biblical prophets' writings?
Speaker D
00:24:18 - 00:24:40
Well, she received a message from God, but she certainly used literary assistant to help write them, but she would check everything once they were written. She even drew upon other sources, even historical sources, but what she's quoted just fits the story of what God gave her. So, yes, we have it in a modern way as well as in times past.
Speaker A
00:24:40 - 00:24:55
And Ellen White wrote in regards to infallibility, and I'll just read this quote. She says, in regards to infallibility, I never claimed that God alone is infallible. So how does this statement help us to understand both her writings and the Bible?
Speaker C
00:24:55 - 00:25:45
Oh, it's telling us that the messenger is not always perfect, and yet the message from God still remains trustworthy for us. And she corrected those who treated every word that she had written as if it had been dictated from heaven. And during her lifetime, you know how many books, pages she wrote? Nearly 2,000, no, 24,000 pages of books and more than 4,500 articles. I mean, and these writings were providing doctrinal guidance, spiritual encouragement, and practical help and counsel for us all. And I find that those common letters and little things like that to ordinary people were just under special Practical inspiration, yes.
Speaker A
00:25:45 - 00:25:47
And on so many different subjects, it's remarkable.
Speaker C
00:25:47 - 00:25:49
Yes, so many.
Speaker A
00:25:49 - 00:25:58
So, so Harold, just in closing, what practical encouragement can we draw from the fact that God used imperfect people with the Scriptures?
Speaker D
00:25:58 - 00:26:30
Well, the Bible says we're like earthen vessels, and God still works through the limitations of each person. Our weakness weaknesses don't necessarily disqualify us from being used by God. And God, the same God who gave the message, has also preserved His work so that even fallible readers can get the message of what salvation is. God is still through it. All in all, every part of it talks of God.
Speaker C
00:26:30 - 00:26:31
Hallelujah.
Speaker A
00:26:31 - 00:26:38
And when we see a powerful message given by a really earthen vessel, it really emphasizes the power of God, doesn't it?
Speaker C
00:26:38 - 00:26:38
Oh, it does.
Speaker A
00:26:38 - 00:26:42
And how good God is to, to give that trust.
Speaker D
00:26:42 - 00:26:46
God uses earthen vessels to touch other earthen vessels.
Speaker A
00:26:46 - 00:26:47
Yes.
Speaker D
00:26:47 - 00:26:50
And so each of us are touching base with other people.
Speaker A
00:26:50 - 00:27:55
He could have used the angels, but He chose to use human beings. Praise the Lord. Well, thank you, Corinne. Thank you, Harold. We have seen that God called His messengers to write under every circumstance, Using varied styles, literary helpers, and even carefully chosen sources. That was done so that his word might reach us. The treasure of truth is carried in us, frail earthen vessels, yet the power comes from God alone. The same Spirit who inspired the prophets continues to illuminate the pages of Scripture for those seeking God. I encourage you to read the Bible, and allow the Holy Spirit to transform you. Thank you for joining us on Let God Speak. All past programs plus teacher's notes are available on our website, 3abnaustralia.org.au. Email us on
[email protected]. Tell your friends about the program, and until next time, may you listen as God speaks to you through his word, and God bless.
Speaker E
00:27:55 - 00:28:36
You have been listening to Let God Speak, a production of 3ABN Australia Television. To catch up on past programs, please visit 3abnaustralia.org.au. Call us in Australia on 02 4973 3456 or email
[email protected]. We'd love to hear from you. Thank you.