Free Will, Love, and Divine Providence - 250108

SPEAKER A Hello, I'm Clive Nash. Welcome to Let God Speak Today. Our panel discussion will focus on the topic of our free will in the context of divine love. We'll also consider divine providence. Does the providence of God overrule our will? Does God predestine some to be saved and some to be lost? You might like to have your Bible handy as we let God speak to us. SPEAKER B It. SPEAKER A Well, on our panel today we have Mike Browning and Rod Butler. Good to have you with us, Mike and Rod. I hope we have a good discussion today as we address our topic, but before we do that, let's take time to pray. Our wonderful God, we just want to thank you that you have given us the Bible and through it you are able to speak to us under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. And we pray that he will indeed guide our minds and those of our viewers and listeners today. In Jesus name, Amen. SPEAKER B Amen. SPEAKER A Well, first of all, I'd like to read a passage from the Psalms. And this is Psalm 81, 11, 14. Psalm 81, beginning at verse 11 says this. But my people would not heed my voice and Israel would have none of me. So I gave them over to their own stubborn heart to walk in their own counsel. So that's the negative side of things, isn't it? And then, then God makes an appeal. He says, oh, that my people would listen to me, that Israel would walk in my ways. Verse 14. I would soon subdue their enemies and turn my hand against their adversaries. So, Mike, what does this passage say to you about God's ideal for us? SPEAKER B Well, it's really a very interesting statement by God. He doesn't override the choices, the free choices that they have made here. And it says, but he laments over it. My people would not hear my voice. His heart yearns over them. But he in verse 12 makes it clear, I gave them over to their own stubborn hearts. In other words, if they really wanted to go that way, he would let them, he wouldn't force them. But he makes this beautiful appeal in verse 13. Oh, that my people would listen to me, that Israel would walk in my way. You can feel the yearning in God's heart as he speaks like that. And the promises he gives of caring for them, protecting them. So he has the same for us, same feeling for us. Of course, he watches, guides, helps where we let him do it. SPEAKER A Now, there are some people who think, you know, God is in control, so everything that happens in the world must be according to his will. After all, God is sovereign. You know, some People use that sort of term. So, Rod, according to that kind of theology, what about when bad things happen? Is that because of divine will? What's the problem here? SPEAKER C Well, there is a problem, and the problem is that when you boil it down to that, God becomes the cause of good and evil and it neglects the fact there's another force at play here. And that force is the force of evil, that is the devil or Satan, and the influence that he has. And just picking up what Mike was saying in regards to. We have a part to play. I'd just like to read from Isaiah. This is chapter 30, and I'm going to read verses 15 and 18. It says, for thus saith the Lord God, the Holy One of Israel, in returning and rest shall ye be saved. In quietness and in confidence shall be your strength. And ye would not now just. I'll finish with verse 18. And. And therefore will the Lord wait that he may be gracious unto you. And therefore will he be exalted that he may have mercy upon you. For the Lord is a God of judgement. Blessed are all they that wait for Him. Now, the point I want to bring out in these verses is in 15, which says. And ye would not. SPEAKER A Yeah, the wood part. SPEAKER C We make a decision which is often contrary to God. And God allows those consequences of our choice to play out. Whereas what God would like for us would be to choose his way and then we could benefit from his grace, his mercy, his justice and his love. SPEAKER A Yeah, and we can think of the term the word will as either a noun or a verb, can't we? The will is what we have, you know, the power we have. Will is, will I do it? Will I not do it? And this is the problem here, Mike. It seemed to me that, you know, God making people with free will and free choice and so on, it seemed like a risky thing to do, don't you think? SPEAKER B So it was a risky thing to do because the risk was always there that anybody with free will can choose to go contrary to God's will, which is what happened, of course, with the human race. But think what it would be like if we couldn't make our own choices. There'd be no development of character. There'd be no ability to love in a natural way to return God's love. So we'd be very much inhibited down to just robots. So God gave us free choice, but took the risk that we choose the wrong thing. And the tragedy is that humanity has done that. But God knew love can't be forced. And it has to be something that comes from our heart. And we all want to do that. I sure do. There's a really interesting statement I'm going to read From Isaiah, chapter 66, first of all, verse 2, which says, for all those things my hand has made and all those things exist, says the Lord, but on this one will I look. And this is the people that gets God's very kind, loving attention. On this one, I will look on him who is poor and of a contrite spirit. A contrite spirit is a person who, as we've been talking, regrets the sin that they find in themselves and who trembles at my word. God is wanting people to be like that, which I think is really interesting. There's a lovely statement from the book Desire of Ages by Ellen White, and it goes like this. And I'm going to read it out. It says, the sincere contrite. There's that word contrite again, which, like I said, means repentant. This is a person who is sorry for the bad things that they find in their own heart. A contrite soul. This is precious in the sight of God. The Lord of Glory is satisfied with those who are meek and lowly in heart, which I think is really nice. God appreciates those who are humble, even if the world does not. And I find that very appealing indeed. I'd like to read to a statement in Luke chapter 13, and I'm going to read from verse 34 there, Luke 13:34. Jesus is talking, and this is what he says. O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her. God does a lot of lamenting over his wayward people. And that's another picture of it in Jesus very own time. He goes on to say, how often I wanted to gather your children together as a hen gathers her children together, her brood under her wings, but you were not willing. And that was his tragic parting words for Israel at that time, which is really sad. But it's still a picture of a loving God who has been turned away by his own people and yet still yearns over them. That's how he feels about us. And I'm very comforted and encouraged by that. SPEAKER A And I'm sure that when rebellion first started to show itself in heaven, that it was the same kind of feeling on the part of God, you know, is his great love for Lucifer, where it all started. So, Mike, just again with you. How urgent is God's desire that we make right choices? SPEAKER B Okay. Similar to a wise parent, particularly one whose child might be wayward. I mean, your heart yearns over your children. You want the best for them. You want them to make good, right, healthy decisions. You want that. And God is just like that with us. His heart is reaching out to us. You read earlier in the piece Psalms 81 for us there, Clive, and once again, it's a picture of God wanting us, wanting to lead us in the right paths. Remember, he started by saying, my people would not heed my voice. Then he goes into verse 13 and says, oh, that my people would listen to me, that Israel would walk in my way. So that's God's desire for us and for his people. Naturally, we should be faithful and follow him and be obedient to him. There is such a thing as Christian obedience. God wants us to respond to that. SPEAKER A Now, we're getting into some hard, difficult stuff to understand here about, because we're human, we're not divine. So it's a little hard for us to grasp sometimes. But I just appeal to you who are listening to stay with us. I'm going to introduce a word here that might be unfamiliar with people who don't know New Testament Greek, and it's the word Pantocrator. Pantocrator. It simply means almighty. Does the rod. Does the Bible show almighty as a quality of God? SPEAKER C Yes, it does. It definitely does in the Old Testament. That word, which is the Old Testament being the Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Hebrew, that word in the Greek is used many, many times in the Old Testament to define God as being almighty. However, when we get to the New Testament, we find up until we get to the Book of Revelation, it's only used once. And I'd just like to read that particular verse. It's from Paul's writings. And Paul says in Second Corinthians 6:18, he says, and will be a father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. So that's putting the word Lord with that word Pantocrator, which is the Almighty. In fact, when you get to the Book of Revelation, that word is used nine times. And in fact, in Revelation 19:6, it's actually translated not almighty, but it's translated omnipotent, you know, the ultimate in potency or power. SPEAKER A Omnipotent. SPEAKER C Yeah, yeah. So God is omnipotent. And the beautiful part about this, too is in Revelation, if we go to the very last reference to Revelation, I'll turn Now to Revelation 21 and read verse 22. And it says, and I saw no temple Therein for the Lord God Almighty. The Lord God. There's that omnipotent word again, and the Lamb and the temple of it. So when we get to the new Jerusalem, we're in heaven, we have the Almighty God, the Omnificent One, with us all the time. What a beautiful promise that is. SPEAKER A Yeah. And, well, it's interesting too, that Paul in Corinthians is actually quoting from the Old Testament there about the Lord God Almighty. But let's go back to the Old Testament, and I'm going to read Jeremiah, chapter 32:17, where it says, our Lord God, behold, you have made the heavens and the earth by your great power and outstretched arm. There is nothing too hard for you. So, Mike, coming back to you, the prophet here is saying, there is nothing too hard for God. So does that mean that God can do anything? SPEAKER B That's an interesting statement, isn't it? And some wit had said, has said, well, could God make a stone that he himself could not lift? Is that an impossibility? But as someone else said, that would be to pit God against himself. And of course, that's ludicrous, really, that God is not going to waste his time on such things. But God nonetheless is restricted by his own nature in some degrees. Can you imagine God lying, for example? Obviously, he has the ability to. But would he? No, because it goes against his nature. I love the statement that's in second Timothy, chapter two, and in verse 13, there's a really interesting statement here. It says, if we are faithless, he remains faithful. Yes, sometimes we will let God and ourselves down, but not God. And it goes on to say, he cannot deny himself. And that is where the restriction lies. SPEAKER A What does he mean by cannot deny himself? SPEAKER B Okay. He cannot go against his own nature. For example, he is the embodiment of truth. Could you expect him to lie? No, he wouldn't do that. So it's very, very clear. I liked a couple of different translations of he cannot deny himself. One of them is he cannot deny who he is. Another one is he cannot deny his own nature. And I like that statement because it is his nature that restricts him to holiness. That is who he is. And so he will always be demonstrating holiness, not unholiness. And it's a great relief to us, isn't it, that our God is holy always. So that means he can be trusted. And I'm very grateful for that. There's a statement here in the Seventh Day that is Bible commentary, actually. I'm going to read it out. It says this because of His Very nature, God cannot fail to fulfil his promise. That's what we've just been saying, isn't it? God will be faithful in punishing the wicked as he will be in rewarding the righteous. In other words, he'll do what is right and what is necessary. SPEAKER A And. SPEAKER B And I'm glad about that. He cannot deny his own nature, and we rely on the fact that he is like that. Now, if you as a human being were a person of integrity, then by definition you're honest and you can't lie. And that's the same with God, only more so. SPEAKER A Now, Rod, Jesus on one occasion said, I am the way, the truth, and. And the life. Could we equally say that of all members of the Godhead? SPEAKER C Absolutely, yes. The Godhead is truth. And just picking up what Mike was saying, God cannot lie. I'd just like to read a text on that from Hebrews. And we have Here Hebrews chapter 6. I'm going to read verses 17 and 18 wherein God willing more abundantly to show unto the heirs of promise the immediate immutability of his counsel, or in other words, the unchangeableness of his purpose. Confirmed it by an oath that by two immutable things in which it was impossible for God to lie. Impossible for God to lie. And you know, Mike, you were saying about God being truth, but also the fact that God is love, can't go against his nature. God is always only love. That's beautiful as well. So impossible for God to lie. We might have a strong consolation who have fled for a refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us. So God cannot lie, he cannot be tempted. Now, God in this plural sense is the Godhead. So this applies to all members of the Godhead. They can't be tempted by evil because that's what says in James 1:13, God cannot be tempted by evil. And there are just some things that God cannot do. He cannot go against his nature, contrary to his nature. So the Godhead is truth. As Jesus says, I am the way, the truth and the life. Well, that applies to the Godhead. SPEAKER A Jesus once made a statement. He was talking about healing and so on. He said, with men, or this is impossible with God, all things possible. Mike, was it possible for the Father to say to the Son, you don't have to go to the cross, you don't have to be sacrificed? SPEAKER B It's a good question, isn't it? I mean, clearly he could have done that and left us to our own devices, judging by what's happening in the world at the Moment, we'd have destroyed ourselves. So he could have done that, but he couldn't deny himself and live to our own devices. I notice in First Timothy, Chapter 2, Verse 4, there's a very interesting statement. It says God desires all men to be saved. That's all people. And to come to the knowledge of the truth, that's what he wants and that's what motivates him. And let's face it, if there'd been some other way to save us other than the death of his son, surely he would have chosen another method. But there was no other method. And so it was a case of he chose to give his son and his son chose to come on our behalf. Praise God for that. SPEAKER A I'm going to look at a text from John in his letter. First letter, first John, chapter four and verses seven and eight. Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God. And everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. He who does not love love does not know God. For God is love. Now, Rod, in the previous chapter, John had said that loving one another is Christ's commandment. Interesting word, Christ's commandment. Can love be commanded by God? SPEAKER C The short answer is no. However, I mean, God has issued the Ten Commandments. There are commandments that summarise his will. But no, love can't be commanded. Because the minute you do that, the minute you try to command or force love, it's no longer love. It's got to be a free will thing. And if you look at, for example, Matthew 22:37,38, it says here, Jesus said unto him, thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, with all thy soul and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. So there's a commandment he's commanding. You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and all your soul. But this isn't something that Jesus just thought up at the moment. This also goes way back to the beginning. So if we turn back to Deuteronomy and look at chapter six, Deuteronomy, chapter six. I'm going to read verses four and five. There's no commandment here. This is from the heart. It says, hear, O Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord, and thou shall love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, with all thy soul and with all thy might. So not saying, this is the great commandment, this is you will love, because it's a heart thing. And of course, we have. Jesus says, if you love me, keep my commandments. So what is behind is love. Love is behind the law. It's behind the commandments. But love has to be free will. God wants us to love him for who he is. He wants us to love him because of what he's done for us, because of his character, the beauty of his character. And to think you could force anyone to love something doesn't work. It's impossible. SPEAKER A What about trust, Mike? Can we. Can we trust God knowing what his nature is? SPEAKER B Yes. Well, this is the beauty of it, isn't it? You know, just responding to what Rod was saying here about God's love. You can't help but respond to it. You know, when you see it, you can't help but respond to it. And when it comes to trusting him, that is part of it, isn't it? I'm going to read Titus 1:2, which simply says, in hope of eternal life, which God, who can, cannot lie, specifically says that promised before time began. One of the things I like about trusting in God's promises is that he doesn't change his mind. He said when he. This was a promise he made before time began. So, and it still holds true today, he hasn't changed his mind. Doesn't surprise us on saying, oh, we're not doing it anymore, like sometimes people do. No, he doesn't do that. So we just have a beautiful option of accepting that. And why would you not want to accept God's amazing gifts and promises? SPEAKER A Yeah. I'm going to read another passage from Paul's writing. And this is in Second Corinthians, chapter 1 and verse 18, where he writes, but as God is faithful, our word to you was not. Yes. So Paul was speaking about his missionary plans here, Rod, and if Paul could be trusted, what about God? SPEAKER C Well, the text answers that come down two verses to verse 20. And it says, for all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him amen unto the glory of God by us. So there's repetition here. The promise of God are yea. The. Yes, the. They're sure and secure, and they're amen. Now, amen means so be it. Let it be so. So we have repetition that God's promises are sure. They are. You can. They're totally trustworthy. They'll never go away. It's up to us to accept them and also to accept any conditions that go along with his promises. And again, I go back to the text I mentioned earlier. You know, if you love me, keep my commandments. When we love God and we trust in the promises, we can Basically be free to have that confidence that God is going to answer and do all that he promised. SPEAKER A Yeah. And our topic today, as you see, is free will, love and divine providence. I'm going to read from Ephesians chapter 1 and verse 11 where Paul again says in him also we have obtained an inheritance. And here's the interesting word being predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to his counsel of his will. This word predestined. Mike, what does he mean by predestined here? SPEAKER B Okay, predestined to decide beforehand. And it's qualified by the next verse 12. He decides beforehand on what basis? Verse 12. That we who first trusted in Christ shall be to the praise of his glory. It was on the basis that we were to trust in Christ that we were predestined to an inheritance. It's a beautiful picture that he gives us here and it's reinforced in Romans 8, 29, which says something similar for whom he foreknew he also predestined to where am I? I've lost my place. SPEAKER C Here we go. SPEAKER B Also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son on the basis of his foreknowledge of what we would do. So once again, it's based on our response to him that we have this decision made beforehand to bless us in the ways described here. SPEAKER A Now, earlier on Rod, we talked about, you know, there are two influences at work. I'm going to skip down to this idea here that God has an ideal for us and our choices in life. But, but is there another influence at work in the world and in our own lives? SPEAKER C Absolutely. That influence is the devil, Satan. That's a very powerful influence. And we are constantly being tempted by that particular influence. And we have in Matthew 4:1, where Jesus himself was. Was tempted by the devil. And we have to recognise we have this evil influence in the world. And we have also promises that we can be safeguarded against that. And I'd just like to read one of those promises. It's in Ephesians 6. I'm going to read verse 11 and it says Ephesians 6, 11, put on the whole armour of God that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. So we have an evil influence in this world that's cunning, that's out to trap us, to bring us down. You know, he walks around like a hungry lion to devour those who can. But we have this promise that we can put on the whole armour of God. We can be protected with God's help. SPEAKER A Yeah. Can I just have a closing thought from you, Mike, about how we can have God's will realised in our lives? SPEAKER B Okay. It's a lovely thought that if this, despite the fact that we stumble along the way, make mistakes along the way, God is still there with us and for us, which is nice to know. John 16:33 makes this statement. That's Jesus talking these things. I've spoken to you that in me you might have peace in the world. You'll have tribulation. That's what happens. Part of living here on this planet is trouble. But be of good cheer. I have overcome the world. So Jesus has prepared the way before us. There's a lovely statement from Desire of Ages, just to finish up here where she says, by passing over the ground which man must travel, our Lord has prepared the way for us to overcome. It is not his will that we should be placed at a disadvantage in the conflict with Satan. SPEAKER A Well, thank you for that. You know, friend, are you glad that God. God did not make you like a programmed doll? He has made you and me with free will. He showered divine love on us. It is natural that we should love God in return. When I look back on my life so far, I can see the providences of God all along the way. And God wants you to continue leading you according to his divine will and purpose. But God respects your choices. He will not force you to love him. It is your choice. Why not decide today that you will choose the way that leads to eternal life? Say in your heart right now, I choose you, Jesus, as my saviour. I want you to lead me all the way until you come again. Well, we're glad you joined us on Let God Speak. If you're blessed by this programme, tell your friends. Remember, all past programmes plus Teacher's notes are available on our website, 3abnaustralia.org.au. Email us if you wish on [email protected]. join us again next time. And until then, God bless. SPEAKER B You have been listening to let God speak, a production of 3ABN Australia television. To catch up on past programmes, please visit 3abnaustralia.org.au. Call us in Australia on 02 4973 3456. Or email [email protected]. we'd love to hear from you.