The Cosmic Conflict - 250109

SPEAKER A Hi, I'm Mike Browning. Welcome to Let God Speak. The whole universe is engaged in a great conflict between God and the fallen angel, Lucifer. This conflict is central to understanding the Bible's worldview. Today we'll explore the origin and the nature of this conflict, and we'll see the role Jesus plays in the final defeat of evil and the restoration of our world. Folks, on our panel today, we have Kaysie Vokurka and we have John Kosmeier. Thank you for joining us today and for your input. We'd like to invite everyone to join us in prayer before we open the scripture. Father in heaven, we just thank you so much for your love towards us and your interest in our lives. And as we look together at the scripture today, we pray that you will guide us through your holy spirit, please, Lord, in Jesus name. Amen. Now, for a moment, we need to consider what the earth was first like when God created it. Kaysie. So how was it? What was it like? SPEAKER B Oh, I think it was beautiful beyond anything we can imagine today. I mean, if you think of the most amazing thing you've ever seen in creation today, it's probably was far more than that. And so much so that In Genesis, chapter one, verse 31, it says, then God saw everything that he had made. And indeed it was very good. So the evening and the morning were the sixth day. So for God to say something that was very good, it must have been very good. And God is perfect. You know, he does things perfectly. He has the most creative, incredible design skills. It must have been truly amazing. SPEAKER A What an amazing world. It must have been. But unfortunately, it didn't stay that way. John, what happened? What was Lucifer's strategy? SPEAKER C When you look in Genesis, and I'm reading from the new King James Version, mm, verse one. Now, the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field, which the Lord God had made. And he said to the woman, and here we go. Trick number one has God said immediately. That raises the question of a question. SPEAKER A Yeah. SPEAKER C And then the second trick that he used was very positive against what was said. And he said, you shall. You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die. Then the serpent said to the woman, you will not surely die. SPEAKER A Okay. SPEAKER C And so here he used the two. SPEAKER A Techniques, direct contradiction with that second one. SPEAKER C Direct contradiction and very positive. He was speaking in such a way that there was no doubt that God did not say it. SPEAKER A Okay. And he convinced Eve, didn't he? SPEAKER C And he convinced Eve. SPEAKER A It's incredible, isn't it? And Adam joined Eve in this rebellion against God. What was God going to do? God didn't leave them in despair. What did he do for them, Kaysie? SPEAKER B Well, he, of course, he had to explain what the consequences were of their choice. But he also, in the midst of that, gave them a powerful promise. And that's found in Genesis 3:15, which says, and I will put enmity between you and the woman and between your seed and her seed, he shall bruise your head and you shall bruise his heel. And so this was basically the promise that one day there would be a champion, if you will, or a Saviour who is going to come and sort out this big mess that they had created. And the thing that is interesting is it says that he would bruise the head of the enemy. So that was in the form of the serpent in the Garden of Eden, but he would bruise the head. So if you have a bruise to your head, I mean, that's. That can be quite serious. Right. And so it was going to have a significant blow on the enemy. But on, on, on the. For the Saviour, it would just be like a small knock on his heel. So, like he was going to. He was going to really be victorious in this effort to sort out this problem. SPEAKER A That's right. That was a promise that he would be victorious. Yes. Lucifer would be under his heel. And I think that's a fantastic thing. Okay, now look, the conflict with evil didn't begin here in the Garden of Eden. John, where did the rebellion begin? First of all. SPEAKER C We go to the last book of the Bible, and in chapter 12, we discover something that I can't understand. It says here war broke out in heaven. How could war break out in a perfect place with a perfect God who had just created the world and said it was good? And then we would go to Genesis chapter two. It was very good. And in chapter three, we find that all the wheels fall off. SPEAKER A It's incredible. SPEAKER C And here the war broke out in heaven. Michael, that's Jesus and his angels had to fight with the dragon. That's the devil. And yet the devil had been the most precious angel in the very presence of God. SPEAKER A Yes, it's hard to understand. SPEAKER C Yes. And so the conflict that we have today is beyond understanding how it all began in a perfect universe. SPEAKER A Yes, yes. No, it does defile the mind to even think about it. In Ezekiel 28, it talks about this rebellion, Ezekiel 28. And I'm going to read here from verse 14. So if you join with us with your Bibles, this is what it says, talking about the enemy, one we know as Lucifer. You were the anointed cherub who covers. I established you. This is God speaking. You were on the holy mountain of God. You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones. You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created until iniquity was found in you. So what is this telling us, Cayce, here? SPEAKER B So this is saying that evil began in a leading cherub. So as the anointed cherub, he had a special role in heaven. And According to verse 15, it says he was perfect originally. Nothing wrong, no evil, nothing. He was perfect as God made him. And yet, it said, iniquity eventually became found in him. And we know from the evidence of scripture that eventually he came to. You know, he nurtured his own personal ambition so much that he ended up envying God and. And just going completely down the wrong path. SPEAKER A He did. And the thing is, he had freedom of choice, as we do, and he exercised it in the wrong way. It's tragic, isn't it? SPEAKER B He wouldn't have gone down this way if he didn't have freedom of choice. He would have just stayed perfect. But then that would be a different situation. SPEAKER A It would. And would he have been perfect? Because how can you develop character if you don't have the ability to choose? SPEAKER B And this is a good point. Yeah. SPEAKER A Anyhow, and we did talk about that in the last particular, last week's lesson. Look. So what went wrong with Lucifer, John? What actually went wrong? SPEAKER C Well, whether we like it or not, we experience ourselves on the wall in our historic section of the family. There's a picture of me on the day that I got married. And I go and look at that picture. Black hair, tall, no wrinkles. I fall in love with myself. I wonder what sort of a mirror there was in heaven, where it says in verse 17 of the chapter which we were just reading in Ezekiel 18, where it says, your heart was lifted up because of your beauty. How did he know that he was beautiful? Because you're always behind your own appearance. But here he found out that he was beautiful. And he was. He was one of God's great creations. You corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendour. I cast you to the ground. I laid you before kings that they might gaze at you. And that was the problem with the devil. He saw that he was beautiful, and then all of a sudden, he was pride. He was very introduced into the universe. Yes. And he was very impressed with himself. He fell in love with himself. He was a magnificent angel. And he had a tremendous amount of influence with the Other angels. SPEAKER A Because he was so impressive. Yes, he had a huge influence. He had presence. SPEAKER C Yes. SPEAKER A You know, it's tragic. I'm going to read Isaiah, chapter 14 now, which also describes Lucifer. It'll even give us his name there. Isaiah, chapter 14 and verse 12 and 13. And this is what it says. How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning, how you are cut down to the ground, you who weakened the nations, some indication of the power that he had. For you have said in your heart, I will ascend into heaven. I will exalt my throne above the stars of God. I will also sit on the mount of the congregation on the farthest sides of the north. So what else have we learned about Lucifer here? SPEAKER B Well, there's some very interesting things. First of all, it names him Lucifer or the light bearer. That was his original name. SPEAKER A A nice name. SPEAKER B Yeah, definitely. SPEAKER A No one calls their kid Lucifer. SPEAKER B Not anymore. And then it also talks about his ambition. So he wanted to, you know, I guess exalt himself. He wanted to be above all the stars of God, which kind of suggests maybe above all the other angels or something like that. But then in verse 14, it's got the key thing here. It says, I will ascend above the heights of the clouds. I will be like the most high. So ultimately, his ambition was to excel above God. He wanted to take that place and have, I guess, all of the prerogatives of God. And this was his downfall, because how can a creature take the place of a creator? SPEAKER A And that's what leads us to this next question. God is the creator, John. So can Lucifer create something? Does this imply Lucifer has the creative power, creative ability? SPEAKER C Absolutely not. He was created being himself. And so the only thing that he could create was a theory of evolution. He's the one that was behind the theory of evolution, where something comes from nothing. SPEAKER A Yes. SPEAKER C And this is where if the theory of evolution was true, then no creator is required. And as a result, there'd be no God. And then Lucifer could be God. And that's the way he was reasoning. SPEAKER A Yeah, that's interesting reasoning. Thanks for that, John. What did Jesus have to say about this conflict between Lucifer and God? Cayce? What was his approach to that? SPEAKER B Yeah, good question. So he actually told a parable that gives us a bit of a picture, overarching picture of the great controversy between Jesus and Satan. And just to help us gain a better understanding. And if we have a look at that in Matthew 13:24,27, it says another parable he put forth to them saying the Kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. So the servants of the owner came and said to him, sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares? And so the story continues and discussion with the servant. But the point is that it was an enemy that put tares among the wheat. And so obviously it takes time for those tares to grow up and bear fruit till we see what they really are. You know, at the beginning, it might seem like, is this really that bad? You know, because they look the same, but when they bear fruit, then you can see the difference. And so it's interesting in Matthew, in the next verse, in verse 28, and he said to them, an enemy has done this. Jesus basically is explaining that the reason why we see the evil we see in the world is because there's an enemy at work. SPEAKER A Yes. SPEAKER B And. And if we don't have that picture, it will seem unexplainable as to why the world is the way it is. And it will seem like God is responsible for the evil because we only know of one powerful party. SPEAKER A Okay, and that's a very important point that Jesus has made here. An enemy has messed things up. It didn't just happen. And I'm really glad about that. What did Jesus say that reveals that God does have a plan to deal with it? SPEAKER C John, In Matthew chapter 13, the same chapter as you were reading from, but coming down to verse 30, which takes us towards the end of this parable. It says, let both grow together until the harvest. Remember the battle in Genesis between the devil and Satan? And now God is saying, there's going to be a harvest. And here you have the good with the bad. So once again, the battle continues. Let both grow together until the harvest. And at the time of the harvest, Here is God's plan. At the time of the harvest, there will be a harvest. And God has set aside a time for that to happen. He will say to the reapers, first gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them. So here we have the bad amongst the good. They will be gathered together, and like a harvest, thou will be burnt. But then, and this is a good bit, but gather the wheat into my barn. SPEAKER A Okay, that was the encouraging part for sure. SPEAKER C It all of a sudden becomes very obvious, you know, who God wants us to be he doesn't want us to be the tares. He wants us to be the wheat gathered into his barn. SPEAKER A And it's an interesting thing that prior to him saying, look, leave it to me. I'll deal with it at the harvest. His servant said, shall we pull all these weeds up? And he says, no, don't do that, because you'll rip out some of the good seed as well at the same time. Don't do that. Leave it to me at the harvest. I think that's a really good point. Thank you for that. Jesus follows this with a further explanation of this parable a bit further along. And so, Kaysie, who did Jesus say sows the good seed? SPEAKER B So that's in verse 37 of that same chapter. It says he that sows the good seed is the son of man. So Jesus makes it very clear who is represented in the parable. And the son of man in this case is actually Jesus himself. SPEAKER A Okay, who are the other players then? John? SPEAKER C Matthew 13 is a wonderful chapter because while we are talking about one parable, it's actually this chapter here is a chapter of seven parables. And God is saying the same thing. You know, his plan of salvation demonstrates who God's people are, but it also demonstrates who the wicked ones are. And here in verse 38, it says, the field is the world. The good seed are the sons of the kingdom, but the Tares, they are the sons of the wicked one. And so we have two routes we can follow. Either God's way or Satan's way, the devil's way. SPEAKER A So we're choosing just which of those seeds we are, the good seed or the bad seed. So who is clearly unmasked as the source of all the evil that we see? SPEAKER B Katie? That's in the following verse. In verse 39, it says the enemy who sowed them is the devil, and the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. So it's pretty plain the devil. Elsewhere in the Bible, the devil is Satan, it's Lucifer, it's the serpent. These are all references to the same enemy that we're talking about. SPEAKER A Okay. And the reference to the harvest being the end of the age, It's a lovely picture, isn't it? I mean, it gives us courage as we deal with the issues of life, that there's a time coming when justice will prevail. And I'm very glad about that. Jesus actually gives us a caution in this parable, John, that when we confront evil, there are certain things to be careful of. What were they? SPEAKER C Well, you said it a minute ago, Mike. And that is there are weeds. And growing amongst the weeds is the good. And God protects the good when he says, no, don't root up the evil. Because it's like in a garden where you pull up the weeds, the flowers and other good things that you want to keep, they'll be pulled up with it, and then of course, they die. And so you don't want that to happen. And God is a God of justice, and the justice will be done not while things are growing, but when it's harvest time and they truly reveal what they are. And once that happens, then God can carry out his work of justice. SPEAKER A Okay, thanks, John, for that. So we need to consider this here now. So is Jesus saying that we should simply ignore evil that we see? Is that what he's saying? Don't uproot the weeds, just ignore it? SPEAKER B No, not at all. I mean, Jesus himself, when he was on earth, he was constantly confronting evil and helping people be aware of it for what it is. Because if we ignore, if you ignore something, if you ignore like a sickness or an underlying health thing, like it can take over and you've lost it. Like you can lose your health, you can lose your life. So it's the same with, with evil. If we don't recognise it for what it is, it can destroy us. And so Jesus in his approach with, with, with us who are exposed to and contaminated with sin, he helped us to identify it and then he helped us to be able to overcome it by his power. So Jesus was very merciful, he was compassionate, he was gracious, he was winsome in his approach with us to help us understand and then grow in a way that we can become separated from sin. SPEAKER A And he was very tender in the way he approached people who were sinners, basically, and who were doing some really bad things and wrong things. There were times when he was very strict, of course, when dealing with obstinate people like his enemies and the Pharisees and the like. But yes, it was his mercy and love that came through. Thank you for that, John. I want to just refer us now to where Jesus himself gained the victory over the evil one. It's in Matthew, chapter four, and I'm going to read from verse one down to three to begin with. And this is what happened. Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. This is right after his baptism. And verse two says when he had fasted 40 days and 40, 40 nights afterwards, he was hungry. Seriously. So now when the Tempter came to him. He said, if you are the Son of God, command that these stones may become bread. Now, how is the reality of the great controversy, this conflict between Christ and Satan, how is it revealed in that, John? SPEAKER C Simple. He didn't eat. He's our champion. And when the devil tempts you with a temptation, like what he did with Christ there, Christ just didn't eat. SPEAKER A He said no. SPEAKER C He said no. And he becomes our champion in that. Because not only that way, but we'll find in other ways as well that Christ becomes our champion. SPEAKER A He does. And he appeals to the power of scripture once again. SPEAKER C You know, we're dealing with 40 days of not eating. No, thank you. And yet Jesus did. SPEAKER A He did. And it was quite amazing that he did. There's a lot of significance. That first temptation wasn't there, Kaysie, when you think about it. SPEAKER B Yeah, absolutely. Obviously, he'd had a prolonged fast, as we mentioned, 40 days. And so from a human perspective, from Jesus, physical humanity, he would have been very hungry and definitely wanted to eat. Right. But also from a divine. The perspective of Jesus, divine nature, it was a temptation because Satan was suggesting, hey, perform a miracle, prove yourself. You don't have to be in this condition. If you are really a divine being, then how come you're like this? Show yourself. Otherwise, like, that was a divine temptation. SPEAKER A That's right. It wouldn't have had any impact on you and me. No, we don't have the power. SPEAKER B Exactly. He did, yeah. SPEAKER C Genesis, chapter three all over again. SPEAKER B Definitely. SPEAKER A It is, isn't it? Very interesting indeed. And your point is good, because this was a direct, if you like, reflection of what Eve went through. SPEAKER C If you. Yeah, once again, doubt. SPEAKER A That's right. After 40 days and nights of famine without food, fasting, you would be not just hungry, maybe you wouldn't even be hungry at that point, but you'd be at the point of death and you'd have no strength. You wouldn't be able to hardly move. I can just imagine the state Jesus would be in. He was at his lowest ebb possible when this temptation came. And even in that state, he said no to the evil one and once again appealed to the Scriptures. And so perhaps you should share some more about that, how he defended himself there, John. SPEAKER C Well, when you go to Matthew, chapter four, and interestingly enough, the book of Matthew is a book about the kingdom. And so this is a battle over the kingdom. Yeah, the kingdom of God or the kingdom of evil. And here in verse four, after the devil had said, you command to turn these stones into Bread. Jesus answered and said, it is written, man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God. Now, we can go into the theology of all this, but the simple answer is that Jesus quoted the Scripture in defence. In defence of what he was saying. Devil, you go to the Old Testament and you'll find there what to do with the bread. SPEAKER A Now, that's good. Thanks, John. Look, moving now to the third, because there were three of these temptations. I'm going to move to the third one. It's still in Matthew, chapter four and it's verse eight and nine. And this is what happened again. The devil took him up on an exceedingly high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. And he said to him, jesus, all these things I will give you if you will fall down and worship me. What's happening here, Cayce? SPEAKER B Mm. Well, this is very much, I guess, highlighting the core issues of what. What the. What Satan wanted and then. And Jesus standpoint as well. So the control of the world basically is at stake here. Satan is claiming that he has control of the world, but Jesus is the creator. And so this is the. This is the standing point that these people, these beings are going through. And the devil knows that if Jesus accepts this temptation, then he's basically handing over the reins to him so that he would, I guess, have even more power and victory. And so basically it's. It's exposing here the motives of the devil. And it's. Yeah, he's. He's wanting worship. He is wanting the worship which belongs only to Jesus as the Creator. SPEAKER A It would have been a huge disaster. Very quickly, John, what did Jesus do? SPEAKER C Once again, let God speak. We're in that programme. And the reason is because when Jesus was tempted, in verse 10, it says, away with you, Satan, for it is written, you shall worship the Lord God, and Him only shall you serve. And so Jesus knew exactly what to say to overcome the problem there. And he tells us, look, we're going to be tempted, we're going to be tested, we're going to be tried, all of these things. But we have been given the word of God as the armament that we need. SPEAKER A We have. And very quickly, there's a scripture I'd like it share if you would, Kaysie, as we are closing, definitely. SPEAKER B So we are definitely in the same battlefield. And in Ephesians 6, verse 12, it says that we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in heavenly places. SPEAKER A Okay, so that's much bigger than us, right? SPEAKER B Absolutely. SPEAKER A Much bigger. So we're, we are dealing with a huge issue. But Jesus has gained the victory for us. SPEAKER B Amen. SPEAKER A And folks, that's the fantastic thing. Sin and rebellion against God is an intruder. No reason can be given for it, no excuses made for it. As we have seen, Jesus was victorious in the battle with Lucifer here on earth. And he'll deliver his praying children today also, I'm glad to say. So we're glad you joined us and let go speak today. If you would like to watch this programme again, all our past programmes are available on our website, 3abnaustralia.org.au join us again next time. God bless. SPEAKER B You have been listening to let God speak, a production of 3ABN Australia television. To catch up on past programmes, please visit 3abnaustralia.org.au. Call us in Australia on 02 4973 3456. Or email [email protected]. we'd love to hear from you.