The War Behind All Wars - 240201

Hello, folks. I'm Pastor Mike Browning. Welcome to let God speak. People have many searching questions, such as, how can a God of love allow so much evil to exist? And why do bad things happen to good people? Today we're commencing a new series of discussions on the conflict between good and evil, which, of course, addresses those questions. In today's discussion, we'll go back to the very beginning with Lucifer's rebellion in heaven that started the great cosmic conflict, the great controversy. We will examine how a God of love dealt with such a tragic development. Well, folks, on our panel today we have Alan Fisher and we have Cassie Sollano. Thank you so much for joining with us today and taking part in our panel discussion. We'd like to invite everyone to join us in prayer. Father in heaven, we thank you, Lord God, so much for the power of the scriptures. And I pray that your spirit will be with us and speak to us. And all those who are tuning in to this study today, please. We pray in Jesus name. Amen. Now, today we're starting a new series of studies on the great controversy which began in heaven. We'll be doing this study for the whole of the quarter that's ahead of us, which is going to be very fascinating. We're going to deal with the war behind all wars very relevant today. So we're glad that you could tune in with us today. Now we're going to start today in revelation, chapter twelve, because in chapter twelve we have a description of this cosmic conflict between good and evil which has been raging for quite some time now, and our earth is right in the middle of it. And we'd invite you to look at that. The world at the moment, as we know, is stirred with the spirit of war, and it's very disconcerting for everybody. Where did it all start? And of course, amazingly, as we're going to read, it started in the very presence of God in heaven. How did that happen? That's what we're dealing with in our study today. So we are grateful you can be with us. I'd like to read to you and with you, revelation, chapter twelve. And we're going to read verse seven to nine. It'll be very helpful for you to actually have your bibles open and read it with us. Here we go. Revelation, twelve seven. War broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought with the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought, but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. So here we have it, right in the very presence of God, the first war, verse nine says the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old called the devil. And Satan who deceives the whole world, he was cast to the earth and his angels were cast out with him. So what is this saying to us about that great war, Cassie, that you picked up there? SPEAKER B I think there's three things that we can deduce from this. First in verse seven I think there's the implication that all angels were involved. Second, from these three verses, while we don't know exactly what the conflict is about or how long it ranged in heaven, we can assume that for there to be a war and the losing side cast out of heaven, the war must have been some sort of rebellion against God's government. SPEAKER A Okay. SPEAKER B The last thing I think we can get from this is that God allowed freedom of choice and every angel had to choose either for or against Christ. SPEAKER A Okay. So we don't often think about the angels faced with such a choice. But they were as you pointed out. Thank you Cassie for that. I'm going to just cheque with something else here. This point about the freedom of choice. Alan, if God allowed the angels freedom of choice and the ability to choose sides, what does that tell us about the character of God himself? SPEAKER C Yeah, well the Bible tells us very directly about God's character. If we read here in first John four eight, it says he who does not love does not know God. For God is love. And so to have love you have to have free choice. You have to have the ability to love. It can't. To choose, it can't be forced. SPEAKER A Oh, it can't. That's right. SPEAKER C Or coerced. So love's an expression of free will. Now in the passage we just read in revelation it demonstrates this. We don't see any evidence that God forced the angels to choose one side or the other. They were all free to choose on what they saw best. But once they had decided, well then God had to execute judgement and notice that he didn't kill Satan and his angels. He just cast them out of heaven. SPEAKER A Yes, that was interesting. And that raises an interesting question Cassie. Should God have dealt with that? Satan and his angels have destroyed them, gotten rid of them. Think of the misery it would have saved us here on earth. SPEAKER B I think it was definitely possible for God to do that in an instant. But we have to think had God blotted out Satan the angels would have feared that any questioning of God's authority would result in their extermination. SPEAKER A That's right, they would. Yes, that's true. SPEAKER B God's way is to let the consequences of free choice play out. The results, in turn, will speak for themselves. We have to think through this. This was the only way God could win our allegiance through his love, and not by force. SPEAKER A Okay. Okay. And that's how we've learned something about God and his nature and character here, haven't we? Not only is he a God of love, but he gives this amazing capacity for his creatures to choose for themselves to either follow him or not even the angels. Okay, thanks. Good. All right. That's God. Alan, we need to understand something about the leader of the rebellion. Did God create a devil? Is that what the problem is? What does the Bible say about the origin of Satan? SPEAKER C Well, in that passage we read from revelation, it gives four names for him. It's described as the dragon, the devil, the serpent, and Satan. We learn more over in the book of Ezekiel. If we go to Ezekiel 20 813 or 13 to 17, it really covers it all, but we'll just look at verse 13. Speaking of Satan, under the figure of the king of Tyre, it says, you were in Eden, the garden of God. Every precious stone which you are covering. The Sardius, Topaz and diamond, Beryl, Onyx and Jasper, sapphire, turquoise and emerald with gold. The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes was prepared for you on the day you were created. So it describes him as a very, very beautiful character. And it says that he was in Eden. We know that Satan was in Eden, so this is obviously talking about Satan. So God created him as an angel, as a perfect angel. SPEAKER A So he was a beautiful being. SPEAKER C But for some reason, he got proud because of his beauty and so forth. That tells us here he chose to rebel. SPEAKER A Yeah, yeah, yeah. You got anything you want to add to that, Cassie? SPEAKER B I think I'd like to look at Isaiah 14 12 14, because we actually get an extra name for Lucifer. A fifth one. It calls him o Lucifer, son of the morning. It's from these verses we can find that Lucifer evidently coveted God's position, and he wanted to be above God. He wanted to be worshipped by the angels. Lucifer, though he was a created being, had a selfish desire for worship that only belonged to the creator. It says, this is verse 14. It says, I will be, like, the most high. That was the sentiment he was carrying with me. SPEAKER A Okay. He wanted God's power and position, but not his character, apparently. SPEAKER B Yeah. In his character, it's obvious he's got these sins of pride and covetousness, and that's what's driving him. This is where those things originated. It's also interesting that he influenced many other angels to side with him and disobey God. And this one I think is. This point is illustrated in two. Peter, two, four, which says, for if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness to be reserved for judgement. From this it's obvious Satan brought penalty not only to himself but also the angels that sided with him after disobeying God's law. SPEAKER A Interesting thing, disaffected people don't keep their disaffection to the themselves. That's exactly what happened here. Yeah, thanks for that. It's an interesting thing that word Lucifer is actually a beautiful name. It means Daystar. SPEAKER B Oh, wow. SPEAKER A Don't know many kids called Lucifer, do you? The only creature I ever knew was called Lucifer was a goat. A male goat. We used to know the friends who owned it anyhow. So. No, thank you for that. That's quite an insight, isn't it? So there was war in heaven. Question here, Alan. What was the nature of this war? Was it a physical war like we see today? SPEAKER C Well, it was obviously a war of words and of ideas. I don't think it was a war with guns and shooting one another. But nevertheless it was a real war. Yeah, it had to be Satan and his angels had to be thrown out and. SPEAKER A Look, Cassie, I should have actually asked you that question. Did you have anything to add to that? SPEAKER B I think I'd like to read Ezekiel 20 816. This is from the King James version. It says, by the multitude of thy merchandise, they have filled the midst of thee with violence and thou hast sinned. Therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God, and I will destroy thee, o covering cherub from the midst of the stones of fire. And this version is interesting because the Hebrew word which is translated merchandise here can mean merchandise, trade or traffic. Verse 18, it uses the phrase iniquity of thy tRaffic. And we can't think in heaven. It would be some sort of faulty goods. Evidently it would have to be Satan trading his deceptive ideas about God's government to convince the other angels of his views. Then this CoNflict only Became physical, moving from the war of words. When the rebels had to be removed from heaven, God allowed the angels to hear SataN's words. If they chose to follow him, they could. This comes back to the idea of freedom of choice. SPEAKER A Yep. Okay. And it's interesting. So initially it was a war of words. But of course, ultimately it reached the point where they had to leave heaven, and I don't expect they wanted to. And so that's why there was an actual war. And they were thrown out, physically thrown out. Okay, so we talk about the government of heaven, and I think that we ought not to think in terms of governments as we understand them today in the nations of the world today, including our own unnecessary evil, one might say, but this is the, but God did administer the universe and does administer the universe, and we're talking about that very thing today. And the choice that the angels had to make and that every human being has to make is, is it God's administration, God's government? Or is it Lucifer's? Is it the devil's? That was a decision that they had to make, and that's the decision. So, Alan, these two types of government, Lucifer or gods, would you like to sort of describe those for us, if you could? SPEAKER C Well, God's government is based on his law, and God's law represents his character, which is love. He tells us in John 1415, if you love me, keep my commandments. But he gives everybody the freedom to choose whether they want to obey or not. On the other hand, Satan's government, it's based upon self and that we should be able to do whatever we want and have no restrictions, and that somehow God's law is depriving us of freedom or happiness. SPEAKER A Yes, it's interesting, isn't it? And people still think the same way. Unfortunately, nothing has changed in that respect. I'm going to read back in chapter twelve of revelation, if you can join me. We read verse seven to nine, which describe the actual war in heaven. I'd like to read verses one to three here, or at least two and three anyway, which helps us to understand even a little bit more. In fact, I'm going to start at verse three. Actually, another sign appeared in heaven. Behold, a great fiery red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns and seven diadems or crowns on his head. And then it says, his tail drew a third part of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth to devour her child as soon as it was born. This was Christ, the child Christ, of course. But having seen that, we need to identify who these stars are. A third of the stars were cast from heaven to earth. What are the stars? SPEAKER B I think we find the answer to this at the beginning of revelation in chapter one, verse 20. SPEAKER A What does it say for us, Cassy? SPEAKER B It says, the mystery of the seven stars, which you saw in my right hand and the seven golden lampstands, the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches. It's obvious here that stars are angels. And we think about every angel having to make this choice. There's implied a third of the angels left with Satan and were cast out. This speaks loudly to the deceptive power of Satan, that even angels with direct access to God in heaven could be swayed by his deception. SPEAKER A That's amazing, isn't it, that he was able to get through to them. And I think, well, here, I mean, he was a brilliant being, but so were they and put us to shame. But anyhow, yeah, so he was very persuasive. Very, very persuasive, and indeed. Okay, so the war that began in heaven with the angels spilled over into this earth at that time. What were conditions like on the earth, Alan, when they came here? SPEAKER C Basically, well, everything was perfect. It was a perfect paradise. We read in Genesis 131 a description of it. It says then God saw everything that he had made. And indeed it was very good. This word for very good in the Hebrew, it's the word Tov that used seven times in Genesis one to describe the God's perfect creation. It's interesting. It means not only that it was good in form and function, but that it was also pleasing to the eye. Like, you'll remember that over in Genesis 24 when it describes Rebekah, who became Isaac's wife. And in the old, it uses this same word, Tov. In the the king James, it says that she was very fair to look upon, or the new king James says that she was very beautiful, and so that's what the world was like here. SPEAKER A Okay, that's really interesting too. Thanks for that. So it was brilliant. Well, there's still lots that's beautiful about the earth. Even though we see signs of decay, there's still lots that's beautiful. Imagine the whole thing beautiful like that. So thank you for that. So in that beautiful, perfect environment, how did Lucifer, aliase Satan, how did he convince two perfect human beings to side with him against God? Kathryn, what do you think? SPEAKER B Well, when this war from heaven spilled over onto the earth, the only humans were Adam and Eve. As you said, they were living in the garden of Eden, which is a very beautiful place, but they were also created with the same moral consciousness and freedom to choose as the angels. God had planted a tree in the garden and called it the tree of knowledge of good and evil. He told Adam and Eve they were not to eat the fruit of it, that Satan came to the tree disguised as a talking serpent and tempted Eve to eat the fruit. SPEAKER A Okay. And that was successful. And they were sucked in, don't you think, Alan, this is an awful lot of fuss over a piece of fruit. This command not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Was this a hard test for Adam and Eve? I mean, this was putting them really into the corner, was it? SPEAKER C No, on the contrary, it was a very easy test. They couldn't have had an easier test. That's the genius of it. They knew exactly what was required, and it was easy for them to obey. Like they didn't want to eat the fruit because they were hungry. We read there in Genesis 129, where God said, given you every tree yielding fruit to you, it shall be for food. SPEAKER A So they weren't deprived? SPEAKER C No. He told them of every tree of the garden you can freely eat. But there was this one tree that they were told not to. And really it was. The tree was put there to guarantee their freedom. Whileever they kept away from that, they could exercise their choice to obey God and be free from sin and death. SPEAKER A Thank you for that. That's true. Yes. It was easy to pick. The test was a simple one. In Genesis, chapter three, still and just, verse four and five, the serpent said to the woman, you will not surely die. So that was a straight out lie. And it was contradicting God. So that should have been a big red flag. God knows that in the day that you eat of it, your eyes will be open and you'll be like God, knowing good and evil. And this is a half truth. They had no difference. All right, Cassie. There were consequences for what they did. What were the consequences? SPEAKER B There were very heavy consequences. All creation was introduced to suffering, heartache, sickness and death. So Romans 323 is relevant. It says, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Sin separates us from God. That's what this verse is saying. The source of life and leads to death. It also leads to worry and anxiety. The suffering in our world is ultimately the result of living on a sin ravaged planet. This isn't to say that every time we suffer, it's because we have sinned. It's not a sort of give and take thing. It's because we live on this world that is sin ravaged that we're affected. SPEAKER A Okay? And it comes, you know, setbacks and evil comes out of nowhere when you realise there's so much good. And then suddenly you're reminded, aren't you, Alan? What was God's response to the sin of Adam? And Eve. Now, because clearly God's got to act and do something about this. SPEAKER C Well, we go over to Genesis three, and if we start to read it around about verse eleven or even before that, back to verse eight, it tells us that God came down to investigate. He asked them some questions about what they'd done. And so when he'd investigated it, when we go over to verses 14 to 19, he pronounces judgement on the serpent animal and on Satan himself, and then on Eve and then Adam. And we read in Genesis 315, God said, and I will put enmity. This is addressing the serpent and Satan. I will put enmity between you and the woman and between your seed and her seed. He shall bruise your head and you shall bruise his heel. And so really this was a gospel promise. It promised them that there was some hope for them. SPEAKER A That's right. SPEAKER C Satan would be able to harass the woman, seed her descendants, but Satan would ultimately be destroyed by one who'd crush his head. SPEAKER A Okay, so God is promising them a champion, basically, who was going to help them here. So was God's response to this emergency a knee jerk reaction, do you think, Cassie? SPEAKER B No, I think it wasn't just a knee jerk reaction. I'd like to read one. Peter 120. It says this is talking about Christ. He indeed was foredained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, so foreordained before the world. SPEAKER A Okay, so it's always been there in God's plan. Yeah, but you would sinnerise. God would do this, you know. That's fantastic. Thanks. Thank you, Cassie. Genesis 315, you've already read that for us. I'll put enmity between you and the woman, your seed and her seed, this messianic promise. God had to have some way of reminding them of this hour. How did God keep this hope, the hope of a redeemer, a champion, if you like, to save them. How did he keep that before them, before our leave? And their descendants? SPEAKER C Well, in Eden, they never seen death at all. The first time they would have seen that would have been when Jesus had to kill animals to clothe them. SPEAKER A That's right. Yeah. SPEAKER C And then these skins they were wearing would have been a constant reminder of the wages of sin is death. And then God introduced the sacrificial system, which was to be like a shadow pointing forward to the. The seed of the woman who ultimately crushed the serpent's head. And we know about this sacrificial system that was around in their day, because in Genesis four we read about Cain and Abel, when they came to offer sacrifices, it says Abel also brought the firstborn of his flock and of their fat. And the Lord respected Abel and his offering. And so they were acquainted with the sacrificial system. SPEAKER A Okay, moving on fairly quickly now, folks, let us talk about this sacrificial system just quickly. What was the basis for the sacrificial system? What was its main point there? SPEAKER B The justice of the law had to be met and demanded the death of the sinner. SPEAKER A Okay, that was the point, wasn't it? Yeah, keep going. SPEAKER B Oh, yeah. So as we read romans 323 earlier, all have sinned. So that means all need a saviour. And it was already decided before creation that Jesus would be the saviour who would pay the price of sin. But Jesus did not come until 4000 years after creation. So before Jesus, a person in faith took the life of an animal, a symbol of what the messiah, the lamb of God, would one day do. But after Jesus death on the cross, there was no need for animal sacrifice. Now we can look back on faith and accept it. SPEAKER A Okay, so now we know, don't we? And we don't have to do those sacrifices. That's really wonderful. So Jesus paid the price for the sins of the entire world. And I'm just going to refer you to Hebrews chapter four, verse 15 quickly, where it says a very important point, Hebrews 415. And it says this, for we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathise with our weaknesses, referring to Jesus here, but was in all points tempted as we are every area, yet he was without sin. How important is it that Christ was without sin, even though he was tempted in every area? SPEAKER C Well, he had to live a sinless life so that he could be a sinless sacrifice for it. But he was tempted in every conceivable way that he could be more than we would be. But even despite all these temptations, he never yielded to sin. And so this enabled him and qualified him to intercede as our high priest in heaven, and he can provide everything we need to be saved. And in Hebrews 416, because of this, it says, let us come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need. Other versions say, let us come with confidence. SPEAKER A I think that's really good. Moving quickly on, revelation 1217 makes this statement, and the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. So this is talking about the ongoing struggle. Now, if you like, in the great controversy, how intense would you say that is today? SPEAKER B Well, there's an image of this in one Peter five eight. It says, be sober, be vigilant, because your adversary, the devil, walks about like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour. SPEAKER A That sounds intense. SPEAKER B It is very intense. SPEAKER A It sure does. SPEAKER C Yes. SPEAKER A No, thank you for that. Just fine. In a few words, how does this great conflict, great controversy between Christ and Satan impact us personally today? SPEAKER C Well, it affects each of us. Which side are we on? Who has our allegiance? SPEAKER A That's right. SPEAKER C In every act of our life we're putting ourselves, we're choosing which side of the, the controversy we are going to be on. But we are told here in first corinthians 15:57 that if we are in God's. On God's side, it says, thanks be to God who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. If we're on his side, okay? SPEAKER A Because he gained the victory, it was done for us. And so we can have such hope and confidence now. Thank you. Thank you for that, Alan. And thank you, Cassie, for your input, both of you, today. I really appreciate it, what you've had to say today. So this war that started in heaven spilled over to us here on the earth. Imagine sin entering a perfect world like ours, causing decay and death which we see. We're all caught up in it. But the wonderful news is that a successful escape plan is available to everyone. Jesus paid the price of our sin with his death on the cross. And now as our high priest in heaven, through his mighty intercession, the grip of sin on our lives is broken. Well, we're glad you joined us today and let God speak hope. It was a blessing. Remember, all past programmes plus teacher's notes are available on our website, 3abnaustralia.org.au. You can email us if you would like. Join us again and God bless. SPEAKER D SPEAKER B You have been listening to let God speak, a production of 3ABN Australia television. To catch up on past programmes, please visit 3abnaustralia.org.au. Call us in Australia on 02 4973 3456. Or email [email protected]. we'd love to hear from.