The Father, the Son, and the Spirit - 240411

SPEAKER A Hi, I'm Mike Browning. Welcome to Let God Speak. There are three great powers in the universe. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. And these three work together for the redemption of lost humanity. And so to provide all our needs, each one took on different but essential roles. Today we'll discuss these roles and see how the Godhead has cooperated seamlessly all together for our salvation. Sa folks, on our panel today, we have Kaysie Vokurka and we have Harold Harker. Thank you to you both for joining us and taking part today. We'd like to invite everyone to join with us in prayer too before we open the scripture. Father in heaven. We thank you, dear Lord, that we can come before you in prayer today. You're a mighty God. And as we discuss Father, Son and Holy Spirit today, we pray that we'll understand you so much better. Please, may your spirit guide us. We pray in Jesus name. SPEAKER B Amen. SPEAKER A Amen. Now, the nature of God has been a confusing mystery for the whole human family. And we've struggled with it. And the question is, can we really grasp a full understanding, Kaysie, of the nature of God? Can we get it? SPEAKER C Well, it's impossible for us because we are not infinite. We are finite beings. And God is of a nature that we can't even wrap our minds around. So to even try would be. It just wouldn't even come close and we would be very much led astray. But God has revealed a lot about himself in the scriptures. And he's revealed to us what is essential for us to know about Him. And one of the most essential things about him is his character. And it is that which he has revealed to us with amazing, incredible clearness in His Word. And especially, especially through Jesus who came to live and demonstrate his character on earth. SPEAKER A He did. He revealed him to us, and so we understand God. Harold, can you explain to us how this misunderstanding, which seems worldwide, this misunderstanding about the nature and character of God, how did that come about? SPEAKER B Well, Lucifer, whom we now know as the devil and Satan, he led humankind to distrust and to rebel against God. And he really went opposite to what God had said. Let me read to you Genesis 3 and verse 4. And he spoke through the serpent, and the serpent said to the woman, you will not surely die. Yes, now that's different to what God had said. But he said, can you trust God or not? And he led the world that way. And that darkness has gone all over the world today. SPEAKER A Okay, okay. So his first basic shot at God was you can't trust Him. SPEAKER B That's right. SPEAKER A Can't trust what he said. And so we had to deal with that, and God had to deal with that. Okay, thank you for that. So we can understand why God had to send into the human family the son of God. Aren't we, Cayce? SPEAKER C Yeah, yeah, of course. So the fact that he sent God sent a part of himself, if you will, in the form of Christ to come and live with us on earth so that we could get a real and tangible picture of what he's like and how much he cares about us. And also so he could show us that he could really relate to us. We had been separated from God because of sin as a race. And the fact that Christ came in to be a part of that race, it really helped to build that bridge back in that relationship. SPEAKER A Yeah. And it shows how far from understanding God that we have become or became, that he had to do that. Said his own son. Yeah. Thank you for that, Kaysie. Folks, I'd like to read from John, chapter 10. And I'm going to read verse 30 and then verse 38. These are the words of Jesus, and this is what he said, verse 30. I and my father are one. Then in verse 38, he says, but if I do, though you do not believe me, believe the works. He goes on to say that you may know and believe that the Father is in me and I in him, which is interesting. So what's this telling us about the relationship, Harold, between Jesus and the Father? SPEAKER B It tells me that there is a unity between the two. These two, or the three persons of the Godhead work together. They're never separate. They work separately, but they all work for one purpose. And we can struggle to understand how two people could be the same as the other. At least in character. We can say that. And some things are just beyond our understanding. SPEAKER A They are. SPEAKER B And God, as Kaysie said, is infinite. How can a finite person understand the infinite? SPEAKER A We're grappling with it, aren't we? So the question that begs an answer, Cayce, is, are the Father and the Son the one person manifestation? Different manifestations are the one? SPEAKER C Yeah, it's a good question. Well, we can have a look at a text to sort of give us an idea there. It's in John 14:10. And in John 14:10, it says, do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you, I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does the works. Now, I don't know how you're Reading this. But to me, this is using very distinct language for each person. Do you know what I mean? Like, it's not one person saying, I'm expressing myself in different forms. It's like, no, there's this one and there's this one. We're working together, but we are distinct individuals. That's the idea that's conveyed here. SPEAKER A And there's a oneness there. SPEAKER C Yes. SPEAKER A That we don't fully grasp, but it's obviously essential and beautiful definitely, as well, you know. So let's explore for a moment, Harold, the Father's role in the great plan of salvation. What was his role? SPEAKER B Well, the Father laid the plans. And John chapter 5 and verse 36 says, But I have a greater witness than John's for the works which the Father has given me to finish the very works that I do, bear witness of me that the Father has sent me. And then verse 30, I can of myself do nothing as I hear. I judge and my judgement is righteous because I do not seek my own will, but the will of the Father who sent me. And so the Father is directing Jesus. And this was particularly true in the time Jesus lived on this earth. SPEAKER A Yes. In his humanity. Yes, yes. He needed that direction and was reliant on his Father, just as we must be. Of course. SPEAKER B And the aim is to save us from sin. SPEAKER A That's a good goal. We appreciate that going on from there. I'm going to look to read from chapter six now, verse 32. And this is what Jesus said most assuredly. I say to you, moses did not give you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven. What's he talking about next? Verse 33. For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world. So what is he actually saying here? What does this mean? Cassie, can you help us with that? SPEAKER C Yeah. Jesus is talking in very metaphorical language here. And we can find. He actually gives the answer away a couple of verses later. It says in verse 35, he says, I am the bread of life. So he is claiming to be the bread, which means that he is also claiming that it's the Father who sent him to come to earth, because that's what it said in the previous verses. And so he has come. And just like when we eat bread, it sustains our lives. Jesus was coming to earth to give us something that would sustain us and give us eternal life. SPEAKER A Right. Sustain our spiritual life. SPEAKER C Yes. SPEAKER A That's a lovely picture that you've given us there. Thank you for that. In John still In John, chapter 15 this time and verse 16, Jesus makes a quite remarkable promise. John, chapter 15, verse 16, he says this. You did not choose me, but I chose you, talking to his disciples. And I appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should remain. That whatever you ask the Father in My name, he may give it to you. Whatever you ask the Father in My name. What does he mean by this, Harold? SPEAKER B Well, he's saying here the Father is really the one who. The source of everything and the final one to make personal appeals to. But you do it through Jesus. When Jesus came down here, he was to reveal the Father and he said, I am the one who came for you. So my request asked in my name, and my Father will do it because he sent me, he'll do it for you. SPEAKER A It's a rather extravagant promise. Whatever you ask in My name, there's power in the name of Jesus. We mustn't forget it, even today. Look, I want to go back to John 14:10 that you referred to a moment ago, John 14:10, which talks about I do not. Where Jesus says, I do not speak on my own authority, but the. Sorry, I lost my train of thought there. But the Father who dwells in me, he does the works. Now, that's really interesting. What is this saying? What is Jesus saying to us here? What's his main point? SPEAKER C Yeah, well, it's very interesting. Jesus is referring to. I mean, the fact that he was. He was going around, he was doing incredible works, he was doing miracles and just amazing things. And it wasn't by human power like that was obvious. He was in a human form, but there was a divine power at work here. And so he was saying that it's through the Father working through him, that he was able to do these works. And it was very much. Christ was so united with the Father that what he willed, what the Father's will was, Jesus was just living out in his experience. SPEAKER A And he was dependent, as we might be if we prayed for someone who was sick, for example, he was dependent on his Father to actually perform the miracles of healing that so characterised his life when he was on the earth. John in his Gospel, gives us beautiful insights into the relationship between the Father and the Son that existed. There's a chapter, specific chapter in John, Harold, that actually deals with this and reveals it very plainly to us. So can you share? SPEAKER B Let me start. John, chapter 17, and I'm going to start from the first verse. Jesus spoke these words, lifted up his eyes to heaven and said, father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you, that unity there. Then he said, as you have given him authority over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as you have given him. And this is life eternal, that they may know you and the only true God and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. The main purpose is to save us. And Jesus was the way here. And they work together. And the Father has given Jesus for that purpose. SPEAKER A Okay, thank you. And he has authority over all flesh, that is, over all human beings. SPEAKER B That's right. SPEAKER A But he says here, and then he goes on to talk about life eternal. SPEAKER B Life eternal life. SPEAKER A That's real authority. SPEAKER B It's to know God and Jesus. SPEAKER A Yeah. Okay, thank you for that. Still in chapter 17, and you read verses 1 3. Let's go on from verse 4 now. And here Jesus is talking and it's very interesting what he says. I'm going to read a few verses here. He says in chapter 17, verse 4, I have glorified you, praying to his Father, I have glorified you on the earth. I have finished the work which you've given me to do. That's a really interesting statement. Then he says in verse six, say, I have manifested your name to the men whom you have given me out of the world. That's another interesting statement. And then in verse 8, Jesus says, For I have given to them, the disciples, the words which you have given to me. What is Jesus actually doing here, Kaysie, and listing all those things? SPEAKER C Yeah, yeah. Well, Harold was talking about how Jesus came to earth to help, to give us eternal life. And so Jesus is basically giving somewhat like a mission report. But back to the. He's saying, look, you sent me on this mission. I've done all this, like, I've fulfilled everything that you wanted me to do. And he has even talked about how the impact of the mission, you know, there are men who have believed on me and believed in you, the Father, through what I have done. And so he's just being open and honest in his prayer to the Father of, you know, all that he has poured his heart out to do on this earth. SPEAKER A He's completed his assignment. It's pretty exciting, really, isn't it? In that same chapter back at verse two, it says this. As you have given him authority over all flesh, Harold, this is the one that we chatted about, that he should give eternal life to as many as you have given him. I like that. So he has authority. A very peculiar nature here. But there are other prerogatives of divinity that Jesus had even in his humanity. Which is really interesting, isn't it? SPEAKER B And this chapter has many of those. Let me read a verse from John 5, 22. For the father judges no one, but has committed all judgement to the Son. Now that's the work of judgement. He is the judge of all. Actually he's walked in our place and knows what it's like. So he can judge well. But have a look at verse 21 and says, as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives life to whom he will. So if you follow him, he promises eternal life. He is life. No one else but who is life can give life. And then have a Look at verse 26 and that says here, for as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son to have life in himself. This prerogative of life is, we would say it's to be I am. And that was another name of Jesus. But let me look at another one here, just over a couple of Pages in chapter 11. And verse 25, this is a great verse. Jesus is talking to Martha at the grave of Lazarus and he said, I am the resurrection and the life, the one who believes in me. Though he may die, he shall live. So, wow, Jesus is saying, I am the life, I have the life, and I am the resurrection and the life. SPEAKER A So he retained the power, correct, to give life and raise the dead in his humanity, which is our hope, of course. SPEAKER B And once he was resurrected, he can do it for others. SPEAKER A Fantastic picture, isn't it? Back in John, chapter one, John introduces Jesus as the Word here. And we're just going to read chapter one, verse one to three, if you can join with us doing that. Very profound words. In the beginning was the Word. The Word was with God and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him. Without him, nothing was made that was made. Kaysie, can you share with us the meaning of this? SPEAKER C Yeah, so this is referring to Christ originally back in the eternal history. And it says, you know, he was with God. So he was, he was distinct from the Father. That's what that's suggesting. But he was God. So he was a, you know, he's a divine being. He had all the power and prerogatives of God originally and he was the Creator. And so, yeah, all of these divine things are bound up in Christ the Word. And it was the Word that was made flesh, which is what it says later, who came to earth. But yeah, definitely Jesus was a God. That is what this is for us. SPEAKER A Yes. And with God, I mean, it's all very clear there. I'm glad that this insight is given us here by John. So, Harold, can you sum up for us the relationship between the Father and the Son here? SPEAKER B Well, that's a good one. John 1:18. No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son who was in the bosom of the Father, he has declared him. If we've seen Jesus, we've seen the Father. That's what he's saying here. And in John 17, here's another verse that tells me this. I have manifested your name to the men whom you have given me out of the world. They were yours, you gave them to me, and they have kept your word. But there's a great 1 in chapter 414 and verse 6. Let me look at this one. This is a great verse. Jesus said to him, I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. So the way to God is through Jesus. He is the door, if you like. SPEAKER A Okay. Thank you, Howard. There's just no other way. That's the point. Yes, Kaysie. To have faith in Jesus is by implication, to believe in him is, by implication, to believe in the Father as well. So we need to. If that's the way it works, we need to know how we can have total faith and confidence in Jesus and who he said he was. Don't we? SPEAKER C Absolutely. And you know, Pastor Mike, God has given us abundant evidence for us to base our faith on. And one of those things is actually prophecy. And even in this quarterly lesson, quarterly, there was one a few weeks ago that we looked at all the prophecies pointing to Christ coming. And if we have a little look at Mark chapter one and verse 15, it gives us an example of this. And in this verse, it says, the time is fulfilled and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent and believe in the gospel. And this is something that Jesus was proclaiming at the beginning of his ministry. He was saying, you know, the time is at hand. Which means there was a time prophecy pointing to this day. And it's here now, like this time is fulfilled. And Jesus was referring to the messianic prophecy in Daniel chapter nine here. This was the fulfilment of it. And so he wants us, God wants us to have faith and confidence in Christ as the way to the Father through the prophecies, as one example of things that we can have a strong foundation for our faith. SPEAKER A It is a strong foundation. And you've got hundreds of prophecies we're talking about here. SPEAKER C Yes, this is true. SPEAKER A And it just gives me personally so much confidence in Jesus and who he was, who he said he was. Now look, we need to move on now to the role of the Holy Spirit. We've dealt with the Father and the Son, the role of the Holy Spirit. We don't read as much about the Holy Spirit as we do about the and the Son. Does this mean, do you think, Harold, that his role is less important than theirs? SPEAKER B Absolutely not. Let me read this one for you. In John 1:12, 13, as many as received him, to them gave he the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in his name, who were born not of blood, not of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. And so the Holy Spirit's work here is to help a person be born again into the family of God. And really, if you look at the time when Jesus himself spoke to Nicodemus, this is what he said in chapter three and verse five and six, Jesus answered most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is of the water and the spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. But that which is born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of spirit is spirit. And so the Holy Spirit brings us to a new life in God. SPEAKER A This is a spiritual new birth, spiritual rebirth. How do you know, Kaysie, that this has actually happened in your life and you've been born again? How do you know that? SPEAKER C That's a very good question. And usually you would know because you have had a change of direction, like a change of focus. And it means that you have a new heart, a renewed heart. So the things that you once liked might be different now. Like you have a change. Right? And in Ezekiel 36, 26 and 27, it's a very good promise to read sometime. But it talks about how Christ has promised to give us a new heart and a new spirit. Why? So that we will walk in his commandments and his footsteps. And so if we are following Christ's commandments, that's another way we can have the evidence that we have a new heart and life. SPEAKER A Yeah, good. Thank you for that. Look, I'm going to read John, chapter three, verse eight, a bit further on from Jesus. Talk with Nicodemus. And he says, the wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but you cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit. So, Harold, this is telling us something about how the Holy Spirit changes us? SPEAKER B Well, we can't know. We don't know how the wind comes and goes and we don't know the Holy Spirit. But the change is, it's remarkable because there are total changes focused on God and life with him. And so the Holy Spirit does that like the wind. SPEAKER A Okay, thank you. So it's, you know, that it is there and active because of what it does, in this case, what the Holy Spirit does. So Kaysie, if you want to be born again by the Holy Spirit, what do you have to do? SPEAKER C Well, you ask the Holy Spirit into your life. I mean, the promises are there. I mentioned Ezekiel 36, 26. There's Luke 11, 13 beautiful promises which we can claim that the Holy Spirit will come into our hearts and lives and give us a new experience. And we just need to be ready every day to surrender to God. You know, pray in the morning, ask God, you know, commit your life to him and just be ready to do that and invite God through the Holy Spirit to come and work and transform your life. SPEAKER A It's the miracle of the Christian experience, isn't it? God, through the Spirit is able to dwell within us and change our lives. And what a hope that gives us. Look, to get to the main point here, Harold, if you must be born again, that's what it says, Jesus said you must. How essential does that make the role of the Holy Spirit then in the plan of salvation? SPEAKER B Well, this is a non negotiable essential. It's a must have. The Holy Spirit brings into our experience just that which Jesus accomplished by his life and death. And if you want to have that life in Jesus, the Holy Spirit is the method, if you like, who works with us, taking us that way. So it's vital. Without it there is no life in Christ. SPEAKER A That's why it's such an essential thing to get right, isn't it? Correct our understanding of the Holy Spirit. SPEAKER B Yeah. SPEAKER A And to appreciate the fact that he is a person working within our person. SPEAKER C Yes. SPEAKER A To change us and to make us the people that we need to be and we want to be for that. SPEAKER B Amen. SPEAKER A We all want Jesus life to be lived out in us. And this is how the miracle happens, through the work of the Holy Spirit. It's an amazing thing and it certainly is a miracle, there's no doubt about that. Finally, Kaysie, can you give us a final word here about how the Father and the Son of God and the Holy Spirit work for our salvation, somehow pull this together for us. Can you do that? SPEAKER C Yeah, sure, sure. Well, it's perfect cooperation, absolutely perfect, seamless cooperation. And you know, we talked about the miracle that it takes to, to change the heart of the sinner. Like this is. This is something that no one can do for themselves. We must have, as you say, the Holy Spirit to do this work. And he does that work and he brings to us a sense of the Father's love and mercy and compassion towards us. And he also points us to Christ the Saviour and what he has done, the works that he has done for our salvation. So together, all, all of the Godhead is cooperating, different roles all at work to bring us the salvation and to restore that relationship and knowledge of God that we lost when we fell. SPEAKER B Amen. SPEAKER A Well, thank you for that, Kaysie. That's beautifully put because it certainly is a miracle, isn't it? And I often wonder, how did God get through to me? How did he do that? And it is a miracle and we're all very grateful that he managed to work in our lives. So thank you for that and how grateful we can be and are to God for all that gets done to save us. SPEAKER C Yes, absolutely. SPEAKER A That's fantastic. SPEAKER C Absolutely. SPEAKER A Well, folks, we have to finish up there. And as we've said, the miracle of the Christian experience is that Jesus, through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, is able to move in our inner being. He is able to share us with the Father's love. He's able to inspire us to receive Jesus salvation. The Holy Spirit enfolds us in that peace that passes understanding. SPEAKER B Amen. SPEAKER A Well, we're glad you joined us today on Let God Speak. Remember, all our past programmes plus teachers notes are available on our website, 3abnaustralia.org.au if you'd prefer, you can email us and we invite you to join us again next time. God bless. SPEAKER B You have been listening to let God speak, a production of 3ABN Australia television. To catch up on past programmes, please visit 3abnaustralia.org.au. Call us in Australia on 02 4973 3456. Or email [email protected]. we'd love to hear from you.