Controversies - 240303

SPEAKER A Hello. I'm Clive Nash. Welcome to let God speak. The New Testament book of Mark is full of stories. Mark does not comment a lot on the action. He just tells stories and lets them speak for themselves. Today, our panel will discuss some more of Mark's narratives. If you love a story, then stay tuned. We'll begin in just a moment. Well, on our panel today we have Robyne Butler and Kaysie Vokurka. Good to have you with us today, ladies. I'm looking forward to our discussion. Thank you. But before we begin, let's take time to pray. Our wonderful God, we thank you that you have revealed to us yourself most clearly through your son Jesus Christ. And as we learn a bit more about him today through the gospel of Mark, we pray that your spirit will speak to our minds here on the panel, but also on those who are viewing and listening. And we ask this in Jesus name. Amen. Amen. Well, let's get right into our first story for today. And I'm referring to Mark, chapter two. And it's found in verse verses one to twelve. I'm not going to read all those, but we hear the story of a man who was paralysed and his friends brought him to Jesus for healing. Kaysie, in view of what is in chapter one, do you think that these friends had confidence to bring this man to Jesus for healing? SPEAKER B Absolutely. In chapter one, which we studied in the previous lesson, experienced seeing so many accounts of Jesus healing people. And so, and that was in that same locality in the Capernaum area. And so he would have been quite well known by this stage. The word would have really spread around that this Jesus can do amazing things. And so I think that gave the friends of this fellow great confidence to take him to Jesus. And so we find in Mark two and verse three, it says, then they came to him bringing a paralytic who was carried by four men. And so these four friends got together, carrying their friend, who was a paralytic to where Jesus was. And it was interesting because even though there were so many people obviously coming to Jesus, and so it was hard to actually get to him. And so in verse four, the next verse of chapter two, it says, when they could not come near him because of the crowd, they uncovered the roof where he was. So when they had broken through, they let down the bed on which the paralytic was lying. And back in that era, the roofs were made of mud and thatch and that sort of thing. And there was always some steps going up to the roof, so you can see how they would easily be able to get on top and then break their way down to Jesus. But that context explains why they'd come to him. SPEAKER A Yeah, it sounds pretty dramatic, just breaking up through the roof. I'm going to have a look at verse. In the last part of the verse, mark two. Two says, and he, that's Jesus preached the word to them. It seems to me, Robyn, that preaching or teaching was his primary purpose on this occasion. Can you imagine what an interruption this descending paralytic might have been? SPEAKER C Yes. Well, Clive, from that description in verse four, I imagine that these people were all engrossed in what Jesus was saying because he had to be a dynamic speaker. And then suddenly they probably heard noise at first and then probably a bit later, there would have been mess, you know, and probably bits of straw and plaster all falling down. And then, you know, they didn't just make a manhole because this man was on a bed. So it was a big hole in the roof that they were making and they had to make this hole big enough for a stretcher. So this man's friends had faith and Jesus didn't focus on the mess. If you look in chapter two and verse five, it says Jesus saw their faith. That's what he was focused on. So we see faith by actions, we see love by actions. SPEAKER A Sure. Yeah. It's interesting that second part of that verse, verse five, the second part says, jesus said to the paralytic, son, your sins are forgiven. You. Kaysie, was this the reason why the paralysed man came to Jesus just to have his sins forgiveness? SPEAKER B Well, we don't know what was going on deep in his heart, but the obvious need, of course, was that he needed physical healing because he was a paralytic. But it's interesting, Jesus read through to a deeper need that he needed in his heart, which was a spiritual healing. And Jesus prioritised that first before then healing him physically. And it's very interesting, we read a quote, an inspirational quote from the book desire of ages, page 270. And it says there, there are today thousands suffering from physical disease who, like the paralytic, are longing for the message, thy sins are forgiven. The burden of sin, with its unrest and unsatisfied desires is the foundation of their maladies. So this is highlighting that what is going on in our heart does actually need to be addressed if we would experience the fullest physical healing. There is a link, strong link, between the mind and the body. And another little comment here from a 2011 source. The assessment of spirituality and counselling says a growing body of evidence points to the important role of spirituality in treating medical and psychological conditions. And so even today, even in medical sort of settings, there's a recognition of this connection between a deeper spiritual healing needing to occur and to have, like, a whole person healing. SPEAKER A Yeah, it's interesting that in psychiatric practise, this is even being built into some training courses for that. So, Robyne, how did the so called religious experts react to Jesus saying, your sins are forgiven? SPEAKER C Well, they certainly reacted. And if we look at mark, chapter two, verse six and seven, it says, but there were certain of the scribes sitting there and reasoning in their hearts, why does this man thus speak? Blasphemies who can forgive sins but God only? So here Jesus was actually effectively claiming his divinity and he was the messiah after all. And they worked out what he was claiming. SPEAKER A Yeah. It's a pretty clear statement, isn't it, that he had the power to forgive sins because of his divinity, as you say, but words are easy to say, but action's maybe not so easy. So, Kaysie, how did Jesus actually back up his words here? SPEAKER B Yeah, very good question. Because such a high claim, you would want to see evidence to support that. And we find that evidence in mark two in the verses eight through to twelve. And it says, but immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they reasoned thus within themselves, he said to them, why do you reason about these things in your hearts? Which is easier to say to the paralytic, your sins are forgiven you? Or to say, arise, take your bed and walk, but that you may know that the son of man has power on earth to forgive sins. Then he said to the paralytic, I say to you, arise, take up your bed and go to your house. Immediately he arose, took up the bed and went out in the presence of them all, so that all were amazed and glorified. God saying, we never saw anything like this. Now, in that passage, there's two key things which highlight Jesus divinity, first of all, as evidence for his divinity. That is, first of all is the one where he was able to recognise what was going on in the hearts and the minds of the scribes and Pharisees, even without them saying it, so he could read their thoughts. And then the second one, of course, is that he actually performed a physical healing. And so both of these was evidence in support of his claim to divinity. SPEAKER A Yeah, I can imagine there was great rejoicing on the part of the paralytic, cant you? SPEAKER B Yes. SPEAKER A Suddenly this new vigour and health coursing through his veins. And let's look at the second action story up until this time, Jesus had called some humble fishermen to be his disciples. And, Robyne, who does he call next? SPEAKER C Okay. So in Mark 214, it says, and as he passed by, he saw Levi, the son of Alpheus, sitting at the receipt of custom. That's some versions use the word tax as a tax collector and said unto him, follow me. And he arose and followed him. So Matthew's gospel gives us another name for Levi, the son of Alphaeus. And that is actually Matthew. Right. And fishermen were low enough, but tax collectors. Well, what was Jesus thinking to call a tax collector to be a disciple? Because they collected taxes from their fellow Jews on behalf of the roman government. So the Jews weren't impressed with that, and they were considered to be traitors and thieves by their fellow citizens. So this was a challenging thing to have Jesus ask a tax collector to be a disciple. SPEAKER A Yeah. The next couple of verses, give us some more information. Mark 215 16. Now, it happened as he was dining in Levi's house, Matthew's house, that many tax collectors and sinners also sat together with Jesus and his disciples. For there were many. And they followed him. And when the scribes and Pharisees saw him eating with the tax collectors and sinners, they said to his disciples, how is it that he eats and drinks with tax collectors and sinners? How despised were tax collectors? Kaysie? SPEAKER B Yeah, so just like Robyn was saying before, they were quite esteemed in a low regard. And it's very interesting. Some comments from the Andrews study Bible, page 1298, says they were not only viewed as ritually unclean, but placed in the same category as murderers and adulterers. So these were considered to be the part of society which was the most degraded. And it's important to note that the critics in this encounter are the scribes and the Pharisees. Now, the scribes were experts in the law, and the Pharisees were also a part of Judaism who really were very well studied in the Old Testament and in the oral tradition that had come down through their fathers after the babylonian captivity. And they had about over 600 laws that they endeavoured to perfectly keep themselves in order to, you know, be righteous, I guess you would say. And so, being so engrossed in the law, they were very, very strongly against someone who was openly living a life that was not in harmony with the law. And so these were critics of those people, but also critics of Jesus because of his interaction with people such as Matthew in choosing a tax collector as his disciple. SPEAKER A It's interesting how Jesus responded to what he heard there about this. Why are they eating the tax collectors, etcetera. And mark 217, when Jesus heard it, he said to them, to the scribes and Pharisees, those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. So what do you make of his response here, Robyne? SPEAKER C Well, Jesus is and was interested in saving people. That includes every boy and girl and every man and woman. It includes me, praise God. I have had people say to me, I'm not good enough to go to church. Meaning I'm not good enough to come to Jesus. But Jesus came to save us from what is not good enough in us. And he says, come to me just as you are. There were self righteous, judgmental pharisees, such as the ones in this story. But there were also honest and sincere pharisees. SPEAKER A Yeah. And some of them actually became disciples of Jesus, didn't? SPEAKER C Absolutely. They did. Yes, that's right. SPEAKER A Yeah. What, like Nicodemus, for example? Joseph of Arimathea. SPEAKER C Yeah. SPEAKER A So we can't condemn a whole class, can we? SPEAKER C No. SPEAKER A Mark then turns to another cause for pharisaic criticism, and that is fasting. And I, you know, the question was raised, well, why don't the disciples of Jesus fast? Kaysie, how did Jesus handle that question? SPEAKER B Yeah, very interesting. I think his answer is very beautiful, actually. And we can find it in Mark 219 20, where it says. And Jesus said to them, can the friends of the bridegroom fast while the bridegroom is with them? As long as they have the bridegroom with them, they cannot fast. But the days will come when the bridegroom will be taken away from them. And then they will fast in those days. So Jesus said, I'm here at the moment with the disciples. Like, why should they fast? They need to enjoy as much of his presence with them. But he said, there will come a time when the whole situation will change, and then they will definitely fast. So in other words, there's a time for all these things. And he also goes on with some other interesting parables. One is about a piece of unshrunk cloth being put in like a new unshrunk cloth being put into old garment. And then another one about new wine being put into old wineskins. And I think the message there is that Jesus is saying that some of the old ideas that the Pharisees have had, they are not really compatible with what he was trying to teach them. And they are not really aligned with that. And so they will. They wouldn't stand against the perspective that he was trying to bring to them. So they needed to have a new mindset. SPEAKER A Yeah, I'm going to read a longer passage of the gospel than I would normally read, and then I'll ask for your comments. And it's verses 23 to 28 of mark, chapter two. Now, it happened that Jesus went through the grain fields on the Sabbath. And as they went, his disciples began to pluck the heads of grain. And the Pharisees said to him, look, why do they do what is not lawful on the Sabbath? But he said to them, have you never read what David did when he was in need and hungry, he and those with him, how he went into the house of God in the days of abiath of the high priest and ate the shewbread, which is not lawful except for the priests, and also gave some to those who were with him. And he said to them, the Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath. Therefore, the son of man is lord of the Sabbath. Now, Robyne, this Sabbath keeping, what was it like for Jews in the first century? SPEAKER C Well, that is actually a really important question, Clive, because by the first century ADHD, the Sabbath command that had been given in exodus and deuteronomy had been explained, expanded by the Jews, and they added many auxiliary laws to it. So 39 forms of work were prohibited on the Sabbath. And according to jewish tradition, that was something that they did themselves. They added to it. So I'll give you an example with fire fighting. If a Jew's house was on fire on the Sabbath, they could ask a non jew to go and fight the fire. But the Jew could not fight the fire. A Jew could carry nothing out of their burning house, but they could get clothes and put them on themselves, as many as they wanted, and walk out of the house and carry the clothes out that way. SPEAKER A That was part of their clothing. SPEAKER C Yeah. And it wasn't carrying a burden on the Sabbath. So in other words, the Sabbath had been stacked up with all these burdensome traditions so that going through the process of keeping all these traditions took over the special purpose of the Sabbath. SPEAKER A Yeah. Like the spiritual intent of the day, for example. Yes. SPEAKER C Special spiritual purpose. SPEAKER A Yeah. So, Kaysie, were the disciples really breaking the Sabbath here? What do you think? SPEAKER B Well, they were in the eyes of the Jews, because when they saw them collecting grain and then getting the hulls off and then eating it to them, they were thinking, oh, these people are harvesting. That's work. This is not allowed on the Sabbath. And so they. They were thinking that these disciples had done a terrible thing. But Jesus totally saw this situation from a different perspective. And it's very interesting that his perspective came from what the scriptures actually do say. And if we just have a read of this from the Old Testament, in Isaiah 58, it's in 13 and 14, it says, if you turn away your foot from the Sabbath, from doing your pleasure on my holy day and call the Sabbath a delight, the holy day of the Lord, honourable shall honour him, not doing your own ways, nor finding your own pleasure, nor speaking your own words, then you shall delight yourself in the Lord. And I will cause you to ride on the high hills of the earth and feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father. The mouth of the Lord has spoken. And so the purpose of the Sabbath was intended to be one of renewal, one of delight in the Lord, one of pleasure with God, not focused on selfish pleasures, but focused on just really enjoying everything that God has given us. And so Jesus was wanting to bring back the delight in the Sabbath because if the people are hungry all day, like if the disciples are hungry all day, they'd be pretty distracted, you know, they probably would be able to focus so well on what Jesus was trying to teach them. And so, yeah, he was mindful of their needs and he wanted them to be in a state of enjoyment and able to just appreciate everything that he was to them. SPEAKER A So Robyne, when Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man, what do you think he meant by that? SPEAKER C So if we look at mark 227 again, it says, and he said unto them, the Sabbath was made for Mandev and not man for the Sabbath. So Jesus is saying the Sabbath was made for the benefit and blessing of humanity and not for humanity to be burdened by the Sabbath. More than that, it was not just for the Jews, but for all races. And it was instituted at creation before the hebrew nation even existed. The positive blessing of the Sabbath is reinforced in the story that follows in the next chapter. So if I read that to you, Mark chapter three starting at verse one, and we'll go down to verse six. And he entered again into the synagogue, and there was a man there which had a withered hand. And they watched him, whether he would heal him on the Sabbath day, that they might accuse him. And he said unto the man which had the withered hand stand forth. And he said unto them, is it lawful to do good on the Sabbath days or to do evil, to save life or to kill? But they held their peace. And when he had looked round about on them with anger, being grieved for the hardness of their hearts, he said unto the man stretch forth thine hand and he stretched it out and his hand was restored whole as the other. And the Pharisees went forth and straightway took counsel with the Herodians against him, how they might destroy him. So it's ironic that the Pharisees and Herodians sought to catch Jesus in Sabbath breaking. At the same time their plans to destroy Jesus were Sabbath breaking. How often we are good at finding fault with others, but not so good at seeing our own failings. SPEAKER A Fair comment. Well, let's look at the story in between verses 21 and 33. In mark three, I'm going to read verse 22. Mark 322 describes who came down from Jerusalem, said he has Beelzebub. That's Jesus has Beelzebub. And by the ruler of the demons, he casts out demons. Kaysie, does that accusation make any sense? SPEAKER B Well, logically, no. Because it's basically, it's like saying the government is trying to overthrow itself because Beelzebub is. This was at that time named for a canaanite divinity who's considered to be the ruler of the demons. And so this is like the head of that dark side. They're saying that the head is taking out some of his own, his own team. And it's basically like shooting yourself in the foot. He's undermining itself. It makes no sense whatsoever to make that kind of claim. So Jesus pointed that out to the pharisees, that the logic was flawed. SPEAKER A What about Kaysie? What about his comment about the sin that couldn't be pardoned? Can you just expand on that? SPEAKER B Yeah, for sure. So in Mark 328 through to 30, he does make some very interesting comments there. It says, assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven. Sons of men and whatever blasphemies they may utter. But he who blasphemes, who's against the Holy Spirit, never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation. Because they said he has an unclean spirit. So because they were. The people were accusing Jesus of having an unclean spirit to cast out another unclean spirit. Basically, they were not recognising the divine nature by which Jesus was working and because they were rejecting that. Jesus said this as a warning that if they are rejecting the only means by which God can reach their hearts, then they are putting themselves in a path where they won't be able to reach by God anymore. And so this is a very dangerous situation. SPEAKER A Yeah. And then we have also here a couple of stories about Jesus own family members. They heard about him. And in verse 21 of mark three, it says they went out to lay hold of him and they said, he is out of his mind. And then down to verse 31 to 35, his brothers and his mother came. This would be his stepbrothers, and they were calling for him. What was the response of Jesus to that, Kaysie, how did Jesus respond about the family relationship? Who did he really claim? Maybe, Robyn, do you want to answer that? SPEAKER C Yeah. Well, he was saying that his role as the messiah was much wider than his birth family. And it's such an awesome thought that actually we can be part of God's family and we can be brothers and sisters of Jesus himself. SPEAKER A Yeah, it's a wonderful thought, isn't it? Well, unfortunately, the clock is against us again. So often this happens. But I want to thank you, Robyne and Kaysie. My guests today were Kaysie Vokurka and Robyne Butler. And my name is Clive Nash. Well, we've seen in the stories we've touched on today that Jesus was misunderstood by religious leaders and even by his own family. But the common people were drawn to him. They crowded the room in the house in Capernaum. A great multitude from Galilee, Judea, Jerusalem and even from the coastal cities of Tyre and Sidon followed Jesus. It's often said that God loved common people because he made so many of them. But in reality, no one is common or ordinary in the sight of Jesus Christ. Whatever your need, Jesus can meet it today. You can be sure that he will welcome you into his royal family. Well, we're glad you joined us today on let God speak. If you were blessed by this programme, why not tell your friends? Remember, all past programmes plus teachers notes are available on our website, 3abnaustralia.org.au. Email us if you wish on [email protected]. And the three. Of course, in both those addresses is the numeral three. Well, we hope that you will join us again next time. And until then, may God bless you richly. SPEAKER B You have been listening to let God speak, a production of 3ABN Australia television. To catch up on past programmes, please visit 3abnaustralia.org.au. Call us in Australia on 02 4973 3456. Or email [email protected]. we'd love to hear from you.