Episode Transcript
Hello, I'm Rod Butler. Welcome to Let God Speak. Much is said these days about unity, and while everyone acknowledges unity as strength, what that unity looks like varies. Some believe that unity is inclusivity, social justice and collaboration among diverse communities. Others believe it's a commitment to shared values, national identity and collective strength. But what is unity in the Christian faith? Stay with us as we discuss what it means to have unity through humility. On our panel today, we have Carissa van Deventer and Clive Nash. Welcome. Before we discuss this topic today, let's bow for prayer. Gracious Father, we want to thank you for this amazing topic, Lord. And as we go through Philippians chapter two and look at the importance of humility for the Christian, we ask for the Holy Spirit to lead and guide. And may the viewers at home understand clearly, Lord, this important topic which we pray in Jesus name. Amen.
SPEAKER B
Amen.
SPEAKER A
Well, there were many forces trying to destroy the early Christian church. And the Apostle Paul wrote the letter to the Philippian Church. While a prisoner in Rome in the early 60s A.D. the Philippian Church was very dear to Paul's heart. He and Silas established the church in Philippi about 10 years earlier on his second missionary tour. And Paul last visited the Philippians about six years previous on his third missionary journey. Our discussion today starts in chapter two of Philippians. So, first thing for you, Clive, what was the spiritual condition of the Philippian Church?
SPEAKER B
Well, while we're going to focus, as you say, on chapter two, it's interesting that in the first chapter, Paul, in verses three and four, refers to the. The fact that the Philippian Church was a church of love and it brought him much joy. But looking at verses 15 to 17 in chapter one, I read these words. Some indeed preach Christ even from envy and strife. So here's one faction, the envy and strife faction, and some also from goodwill. So you've got two opposing motivations for preaching Christ. Verse 16, the former, that's the envy and strife mobilized. They preach Christ from selfish ambition, not sincerely supposing, to add afflictions to my chains, but the second group, the latter, out of love, knowing that I am appointed for the defence of the gospel. So you've got a bit of a contrast here between the motivation of envy and strife and that of good will behind the preaching of Christ.
SPEAKER A
So, Carissa, picking up on what Clive just said, was Paul worried that some were preaching Christ with the wrong motive?
SPEAKER C
Yes and no. We read in Philippians 1:18, which says what then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in Truth. Christ is preached. And in this I rejoice. Yes. And will rejoice. Yes. Paul was worried because they often had the wrong motives, including strife, selfish ambition. They were not sincere. However, regardless of the motives, Christ was still being preached. And Paul knew the power of the message of Christ and its ability to save people from sin. So regardless of the people or the methods, Christ and the Gospel is still being preached.
SPEAKER A
Yeah. Paul knew that the message of Christ never came back void. It always would have an impact regardless. Very good. Well, let's pick up events now from chapter two. I'm going to read Philippians 2, 1, 3 and then Clive, I've got a question for you. Chapter two, verse one. Therefore, if there is any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the spirit, if any affection and mercy, fulfil my joy by being like minded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind, let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit. But in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than themselves. Clive, what was the danger that Paul saw to the Philippian Church?
SPEAKER B
Well, you've touched on it there in verse three where Paul talks about selfish ambition. And it's interesting when he was writing to the Galatian Church in Galatians chapter five, or I should say Galatian churches because it was region. Galatians 5, 19, 20. Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness. Verse 20 goes on with the list. Idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies. And you know, there's quite a list here of negative things here that Paul is talking about. And they all come back to self, to self. And really I think self is the root of all evil. Don't you think so?
SPEAKER A
Yeah, definitely. So the unity of the churches was at risk because people putting self first. Chrissa, what does Paul give as a remedy for this disunity?
SPEAKER C
Yes, Paul answers in the end of verse three and says, but in lowliness of mind, let each esteem others better than himself. In verse four, let each of you look out not only for his own interests, but also for the interests of others. So in order to have unity inside the church, we are to avoid rivalry, selfishness and to be encouraging, comfort others, loving, affectionate, be merciful. So having these Christlike characters and also putting the needs of others before yourself.
SPEAKER A
Interesting, isn't it? Look, it says in verse two it says being like minded. Clive, what does that mean? What does it Mean to be like minded.
SPEAKER B
Well, I looked up my Greek lexicon on this one, and it uses the word phroneo, which means to be of the same mind, to be united, to cherish the same views, to be harmonious in thoughts and feelings. There's quite a bit implied in this one word here. It's interesting that when we go back to First Corinthians, when Paul wrote to the church of Corinth, First Corinthians, chapter 1 and verse 10, he says, Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing and that there be no divisions among you, but that you perfectly be joined together in the same mind. So here's this thought again. In the same mind and in the same judgment. And further to that, In Ephesians, chapter 4:13, he says, till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ. So in other words, he's saying, unity involves projecting the same message, not warring against each other. We're to be united in truth, in the word of God.
SPEAKER A
That's very important because having different views and different doctrines can cause disunity. Yeah. Now, the Jews focused on the law of Moses, but they had a problem, didn't they, Chrissa? What was that problem?
SPEAKER C
Yes, they had a heart problem. And we read this in Matthew 12:34, which says, brood of vipers, how can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks, speaks. So the religious leaders emphasized outward behavior and the letter of the law. And they had no inward transformation, and so no love for others. And so Jesus focused them on the spiritual side of the law, having motives, thoughts and feelings of love and transformation in the heart and living out the knowledge that they were learning. And so this would result in a character and a heart change.
SPEAKER A
Right. So they had a heart problem. They needed a new heart. So, Clive, from what Chris has just said, can you give an example of, from the Gospels of someone who had they were keeping the law but didn't have the love for their fellow man?
SPEAKER B
Well, I could. There's probably a few examples. We could create Rod, but one that's quite familiar to many people I think would be the root, what they call the rich young ruler. In Luke chapter 18 and verses 20 to 22 in this dialogue that's going on, Jesus says, you know the commandments. He says to the young ruler, do not commit adultery. Do not Murder, do not steal. Do not bear false witness on your father and your mother. And the ruler replies, the young man says, all these things I have kept from my youth. So when Jesus heard these things, he said to him, you still lack one thing. Sell all that you have and distribute to the poor, and you'll have treasure in heaven. He probably thought he kept the letter of the law. But what about the spirit of the law? As we find in the Beatitudes of Jesus, that was where his fault lie lay.
SPEAKER A
And the fact that he went to Jesus tells me that he knew something was missing. Yes, but he couldn't quite put his finger on it. He was keeping all the requirements outwardly, but he was missing something. Which is interesting, Carissa, does it come naturally for us to keep the spirit of the law and think of others first?
SPEAKER C
No, it does not. We read in Matthew 15:18, 19 which says, but those things which proceed out of the mouth come from the heart and they defile a man. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witnesses and blasphemies. And so we have an evil natural tendency to do what is wrong. And the heart does not want to put others first and is often driven by selfishness.
SPEAKER A
Okay, so in the context of unity, these verses tell us that the danger was to the church, that people would be thinking of self, selfish, ambition, and by doing that there would be disunity. And the way around that was to think of others, put others first. So let's.
SPEAKER B
Some people, of course would argue that self is a good preserver, you know, that we've got to look after ourselves. And I guess in some philosophies that might be true, but not for Christians.
SPEAKER A
No, I guess if everyone's thinking of looking after themselves and people have different perspective of what that means, you could get disunity on how they actually achieve that. So I think the Christian faith would be unique in having this concept of putting others first for unity. So let's just keep reading. I'll read now verse 5, that's Philippians 2, 5. And it says, let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus. Now Clive, what is the mind of Christ?
SPEAKER B
Well, it was self abnegation really. He humbled himself. You just think that here was one who was one with God the Father, you know, he was in heaven having the adoration of the angels. And yet for the sake of fallen humanity, he was willing to forego all that he'd come and be born like a in humble circumstances. This was love for mankind that led him to do that kind of action. And the Christlike way of thinking is the one we need to follow as his disciples too. He's set the example, leaving heaven, coming and risking all to our sakes. What a wonderful Savior.
SPEAKER A
Yeah, I guess if we look at what Christ did, he was God, but he came a person, he condescended. It's very hard for us to comprehend that move down. And with our natural heart, we want to elevate ourselves. Don't we want to promote ourselves? We want to be the leaders and so forth. So we had looked at Jesus as our example. Carissa, how do we know about Jesus life? How do we get that example so we can follow it?
SPEAKER C
Through study of Scripture, we can get to know Jesus and learn more about his life, the people he interacted with, his encounters with disciples. And we can also read about how he dealt with temptations. And this is often something that we struggle with as Christians. And so we can look to Jesus as an example of how we can also approach these trials. And so we read in Hebrews 4:15, for we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was at all points tempted as we are yet without sin. So Jesus experienced all the temptations that we are to experience as well.
SPEAKER A
Which means he is our great example. Now, just on that point, with our natural heart, we don't want to have the mind of Christ. We don't want to follow Jesus example. We want to follow self. So we need a change of heart. Clive, how do we get that change of heart to have the mind of Christ?
SPEAKER B
Well, I think the natural heart says, I'm okay, but that's really not the case. In fact, Jeremiah summed it up well when he said in Jeremiah 17:9, the the heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked. And who can know it? So you know, our hearts tend to promote ourselves, but only the Holy Spirit can give us a change of heart to give us spiritual understanding. I like what Paul says over in First Corinthians, chapter 2, verses 11 and 12. For what man knows the things of a man except the Spirit of the man which is in him. Even so, no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God, verse 12. Now we have received not the Spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God. And then down in verse 16, he concludes this chapter by saying, but who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him, but we, we have the mind of Christ. So Philippians 1, verse 6 says the Holy Spirit works on our hearts and all of our lives.
SPEAKER A
And it's that hard work for all of our lives which changes.
SPEAKER B
It's a lifelong work of the Holy Spirit.
SPEAKER A
Yeah. And we have to allow the Holy Spirit to do its work on us. Thank you for that, Clive. Let's keep reading. Now I'm going to read verses six and seven. And again, this goes to the heart of Christ's humility, verse 6. Who being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made himself of no reputation, taking the form of a servant and coming in the likeness of men. Now what does this tell us about Jesus?
SPEAKER C
This tells us that Jesus was in the form of God. So Jesus was God.
SPEAKER A
So.
SPEAKER C
So the second member of the Godhead, and yet through the operation of the Holy Spirit, the third member of the Godhead, he became a divine human. And yeah, he was born. Born by a virgin and yeah, the infinite became finite. And this is very, very hard for us to comprehend how God himself came and humbled himself and came to the earth. And yeah, Paul causes the mystery of godliness. And we see this in First Timothy 3:16, which says, and without controversy, great is the mystery of godliness, God was manifested in the flesh, justified in the spirit seen by angels, preached among the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up in glory.
SPEAKER A
As you say, Chris, it's something to really get your head around. It's so hard because it's a demonstration of the, the ultimate example of humility you could even think of, that God would become a finite part of his creation. It really does boggle you now, Clive, just on that ultimate example of humility. You know, God was prepared to condescend and become a human, which is very hard for us to understand. How does that contrast with Satan's character?
SPEAKER B
Well, he was the one who said, I will be like the Most High. There's a couple of passages in the Old Testament that really summarize this quite well. One is Isaiah 14, and I won't read the whole passage but just two verses here. Isaiah 14, 13, 14. For you said in your heart, I will ascend into heaven. I will exalt my throne above the stars of God. I notice the Word I keeps coming through here. I will also sit on the mount of the congregation on the farther sides of the north. I will ascend above the heights of the clouds. I will be like the Most High. So Satan or Lucifer as he was at this time, was not content with his position of service. He wanted to be exalted. And in Ezekiel 28:17 there's another a similar thought. Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty. You corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor. I cast you to the ground. I laid you before kings that they might gaze upon you. So contrast the attitude of Satan with that of Christ. Jesus made himself of no reputation, whereas humility, that was Jesus philosopher. Satan was to exalt himself. Quite a contrast opposite to humility.
SPEAKER A
It's polar opposites, isn't it? You couldn't get a more east versus west difference to the two characters. Satan wants to promote himself and become like God. And here's Jesus wanting to come down to save humanity.
SPEAKER B
Yeah, and you know, Jesus said, I came not to be served, but to serve, you know, very deep.
SPEAKER A
Now, Chris, it says in verse seven, in the likeness of men. Was Jesus really like us or was he still part of God? Did he have an advantage in doing what he did? Was he really like us?
SPEAKER C
Jesus had flesh and blood just like us, and he had no advantages. He experienced a lot of our emotions that we experienced today. Joy, happiness, also thirst and hunger and pain. And throughout these challenges that we experience, also Jesus had to depend on strength from God. And so we can also depend on Jesus through the strength of the Holy Spirit, which he promised to be the helper.
SPEAKER A
Yeah, that's very important, isn't it? Well, look, let's just keep reading. I'm going to read verse eight now. It says, and being found in. In appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. Obedient to the death of the cross is an interesting phrase. And Clive, just what do you think? Obedient to who? What's the answer to this? Obedient to who and why?
SPEAKER B
He's obedient to his heavenly Father in another place. Jesus said he did what his Father commanded him to do, which is an interesting expression in one of the Gospels, that was John 12:49, I think he says that. So Jesus, it would have been a great temptation to him, I think, you know, to say, well, leave these people to their own devices, you know, why should I go through all this suffering for their sake? But it was love that drove him to it. I like what we read in Luke chapter 22 and in verse 42 where Jesus is praying in the garden of Gethsemane. And I can kind of picture having been to the garden of Gethsemane. Myself, I can picture him there amongst the olive trees. And he says, father, if it is your will, take this cup away from me. Nevertheless, not my will, but yours be done. So he was willing to go, as Paul said in writing, to the slipping Church, willing to endure even the cross for our sake. What a wonderful Saviour.
SPEAKER A
And again, you think of what he's done. He's laying aside any self plan, self motivation. He's doing only what the will of God wants. He's following totally the God, even to the point of death. And again, in terms of humility, I can't think of anything that would be anything more than that. A greater example.
SPEAKER B
Yeah. And I think people who serve others, you know, in voluntary roles, you know, being caring for others, they know that serving others is the most satisfying life, not, you know, what can I get out of it? And Jesus is an example of that.
SPEAKER A
He is too. That's very good. People do volunteer work because they get great satisfaction in giving of their time and of themselves to help others. And that's a good example too. Yes. Now Paul says, even the death and the cross. Chris, what was it about dying on a cross that would prompt Paul to make that distinction?
SPEAKER C
So Jesus planned to come from heaven to earth and live a sinless life to meet the demands of the law. And we know that the wages of sin is death. And so, so death was needed for our sins. And so Jesus decided to come and die on behalf of sinners. And the cross was an extremely long and painful death and it was very shameful and also reserved for sinners. And so Jesus accepted the shame and agony for our salvation. And we read this in Hebrews 12:2, which says, looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, before the joy that was set before him, endured the cross, despising the shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. And here we also can have encouragement that, you know, Jesus conquered sin and he was also resurrected and sitting at the right hand of God.
SPEAKER A
Yeah. And when you look at again, that example of humility where he would allow himself to die a death of such shame and pain for us, you're drawn to that, that love you can't resist. And again, in terms of unity, that brings people together, doesn't it? The act of what Christ did to allow that to happen to him, for us, it's very powerful. So, Clive, if the mind of Christ was Jesus ultimate example of humility and perfect. He lived a life of perfect obedience. He's our pattern. How do we apply that mindset to ourselves? How do we get that mindset?
SPEAKER B
Well, I think first of all we need to thank God that Jesus was willing to sacrifice all for us. Thankfulness, gratitude for his attitude, willing to humble ourselves to put others needs before our own. And I think too we need to pray for the Holy Spirit to change our hearts and give us the power to follow Christ's example. I think of that statement that it would be well for us to spend a thoughtful hour each day on the life of Christ, especially the closing scenes.
SPEAKER A
And that again draws you to Christ, changes you. What are your thoughts on that, Carissa?
SPEAKER C
So we have the example of Christ and I believe that when we are really transforming, formed by God's love and when we really have the gospel in our hearts, that we will be able to endure pain and shame, not worry about these things because we have something greater before us to look forward to. And by having this experience of knowing God's love, we are also able to witness and to share this love with others and not worry about the suffering that we may encounter.
SPEAKER A
Yeah, that's that. Sharing is very important, isn't it? So look, from our discussion today again, I'll leave this with you, Chris. What do you see as the key ingredient for this unity in the church?
SPEAKER C
For true unity, we must look to Jesus as our example and he demonstrates humility by making himself a servant. And so through strength of the Holy Spirit, we can have a new heart and we can put put others first.
SPEAKER A
And so if we put others first in the church or even in the community, they will notice there's something different because we're going against what people would consider to be the natural way of the heart, which is to look after self. They would be attracted to that. And I find that if any of us have been the recipient of acts of kindness, that has a powerful impact upon us because why are they doing that? They didn't need to do that. They did it for nothing. It makes a very powerful statement, doesn't it, on what their values are and where they're coming from. So unity through humility was the lesson we looked at today. And Christ is our ultimate example for that. And we praise God for that because we can have the heart and the mind of Christ through the Holy Spirit working in us, which is very powerful. Well, thank you God Teresa. Thank you Clive, for your comments today. Look, Philippians 218 is a call for us to develop a Christlike way of thinking. We must follow in the footsteps of Jesus practicing humility and obedience to God. He's our example. Although we may not fully grasp the mystery of Christ's love to condescend to become a man, we we know enough that we are to copy his incredible humility and live in humble unity with one another. And when we do that, we will attract others and we will represent Christ and bring glory to his name. We're glad you joined us today on Let God Speak. Remember, all past programs plus teacher's notes are available on our website 3abnaustralia.orgau email us on lgsabnaustralia.org au we would love to hear from you. Tell your friends about the program. Join us again next time for another discussion on the book of Philippians. God bless.